American politics has unfortunately long since devolved into a predictable battle between voters on the nation’s east and west coasts and in the largest cities who are predominantly liberal/progressive/socialist and rural voters in the nation’s “flyover” sections of the South, the Midwest, and other “heartland” areas who are predominantly conservative/evangelical/capitalist.
Yes, there are wide exceptions to those generalizations, but history shows that ideological divide widening since the Reagan years as conservatives and liberals alike gravitated to the extremes of their political philosophies leaving consensus and compromise – governing if you will – more and more elusive.
As a child of the Cold War and one who traveled behind the former Iron Curtain before capitalism and the jeans and cable television it embodied helped bring that curtain down, the notion of serious American politicians peddling their wares under the actual banner of Democratic Socialism seems bizarre at best.
But here we are. In the crowded Democratic Party presidential debates, we’ve heard from candidates proudly claiming adherence to the Democratic Socialist movement, campaigning on policy initiatives that embrace socialist ideals, and trying to convince voters socialist economic policies – slathered in democracy, mind you – are both superior to and preferable to capitalism.
Socialism, you will recall, is an economic system in which there exists no private property and the state controls both the means of production and the distribution of goods. Various forms of socialism exist in which the means of production are controlled or owned by workers.
Democratic Socialists argue that their version of socialism stops short of the classic definition. They say they generally don’t think government should take control of all economic aspects, just the ones they want to control – health care, housing, income equality, gender and cultural relationships to name a few.
Since those issues and philosophies are being debated in 2020 Democratic Party presidential debates, the perception of the party shifts farther to the left – giving rise to a new subset of the Democratic Party that the media has dubbed “the New Left.”
Across the political aisle, the Republican Party at every level is being tied to every Tweet or other utterance of President Donald Trump. Mississippians have seen in state, district, and local political advertising this year that the Trump name has become the political good housekeeping seal for Republican candidates. GOP candidates either argue the depth of their own loyalty to Trump or question the quality of fealty to Trump by their Republican opponents.
Trump either is or at the very least purports to be capitalism writ large. The fact that the president is fond of discussing and displaying his own wealth and his opulent pre-presidency lifestyle makes him almost a caricature of the voraciously successful capitalist.
In what increasingly appears to be his re-election strategy, the president speaks and writes about American nationalism in ways that push every Republican farther to the right. Some of those pronouncements ignore the inarguable reality that America is a nation of immigrants. And no matter how outrageous or incendiary the Trump Tweet of the day might be, all Republicans are painted with the Trump brush by their Democratic opponents.
What is apparent, at least what I believe is apparent, is that voters in the South, the Midwest and the rest of the nation’s heartland simply aren’t ready to embrace Democratic Socialism as an alternative to the incumbent president. If the New Left succeeds in hijacking the Democratic Party away from a more centrist candidate like Joe Biden, they will win that primary battle only to lose the 2020 general election war.
The bashing of “The Squad” and other “New Left” provocations by the president are strategic. Trump is framing his 2020 race to be one of voters choosing between socialism and capitalism, between American First or open borders - and about the future of Roe v. Wade, the Second Amendment, and the flag.
Few prognosticators gave Trump a prayer in 2016 against Hillary Clinton. But he won. His detractors now read his Tweets and say daily: “Trump is crazy!” Yeah, crazy like a fox.
Sid Salter is a syndicated columnist. Contact him at sidsalter@sidsalter.com.
Wednesday, July 24, 2019
Sid Salter: Will Dem Socialism Help Trump?
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Trollfest '09
Trollfest '07 was such a success that Jackson Jambalaya will once again host Trollfest '09. Catch this great event which will leave NE Jackson & Fondren in flames. Othor Cain and his band, The Black Power Structure headline the night while Sonjay Poontang returns for an encore performance. Former Frank Melton bodyguard Marcus Wright makes his premier appearance at Trollfest singing "I'm a Sweet Transvestite" from "The Rocky Horror Picture Show." Kamikaze will sing his new hit, “How I sold out to da Man.” Robbie Bell again performs: “Mamas, don't let your babies grow up to be Bells” and “Any friend of Ed Peters is a friend of mine”. After the show, Ms. Bell will autograph copies of her mug shot photos. In a salute to “Dancing with the Stars”, Ms. Bell and Hinds County District Attorney Robert Smith will dance the Wango Tango.
Wrestling returns, except this time it will be a Battle Royal with Othor Cain, Ben Allen, Kim Wade, Haley Fisackerly, Alan Lange, and “Big Cat” Donna Ladd all in the ring at the same time. The Battle Royal will be in a steel cage, no time limit, no referee, and the losers must leave town. Marshand Crisler will be the honorary referee (as it gives him a title without actually having to do anything).
Meet KIM Waaaaaade at the Entergy Tent. For five pesos, Kim will sell you a chance to win a deed to a crack house on Ridgeway Street stuffed in the Howard Industries pinata. Don't worry if the pinata is beaten to shreds, as Mr. Wade has Jose, Emmanuel, and Carlos, all illegal immigrants, available as replacements for the it. Upon leaving the Entergy tent, fig leaves will be available in case Entergy literally takes everything you have as part of its Trollfest ticket price adjustment charge.
Donna Ladd of The Jackson Free Press will give several classes on learning how to write. Smearing, writing without factchecking, and reporting only one side of a story will be covered. A donation to pay their taxes will be accepted and she will be signing copies of their former federal tax liens. Ms. Ladd will give a dramatic reading of her two award-winning essays (They received The Jackson Free Press "Best Of" awards.) "Why everything is always about me" and "Why I cover murders better than anyone else in Jackson".
In the spirit of helping those who are less fortunate, Trollfest '09 adopts a cause for which a portion of the proceeds and donations will be donated: Keeping Frank Melton in his home. The “Keep Frank Melton From Being Homeless” booth will sell chances for five dollars to pin the tail on the jackass. John Reeves has graciously volunteered to be the jackass for this honorable excursion into saving Frank's ass. What's an ass between two friends after all? If Mr. Reeves is unable to um, perform, Speaker Billy McCoy has also volunteered as when the word “jackass” was mentioned he immediately ran as fast as he could to sign up.
In order to help clean up the legal profession, Adam Kilgore of the Mississippi Bar will be giving away free, round-trip plane tickets to the North Pole where they keep their bar complaint forms (which are NOT available online). If you don't want to go to the North Pole, you can enjoy Brant Brantley's (of the Mississippi Commission on Judicial Performance) free guided tours of the quicksand field over by High Street where all complaints against judges disappear. If for some reason you are unable to control yourself, never fear; Judge Houston Patton will operate his jail where no lawyers are needed or allowed as you just sit there for minutes... hours.... months...years until he decides he is tired of you sitting in his jail. Do not think Judge Patton is a bad judge however as he plans to serve free Mad Dog 20/20 to all inmates.
Trollfest '09 is a pet-friendly event as well. Feel free to bring your dog with you and do not worry if your pet gets hungry, as employees of the Jackson Zoo will be on hand to provide some of their animals as food when it gets to be feeding time for your little loved one.
Relax at the Fox News Tent. Since there are only three blonde reporters in Jackson (being blonde is a requirement for working at Fox News), Megan and Kathryn from WAPT and Wendy from WLBT will be on loan to Fox. To gain admittance to the VIP section, bring either your Republican Party ID card or a Rebel Flag. Bringing both and a torn-up Obama yard sign will entitle you to free drinks served by Megan, Wendy, and Kathryn. Get your tickets now. Since this is an event for trolls, no ID is required. Just bring the hate. Bring the family, Trollfest '09 is for EVERYONE!!!
This is definitely a Beaver production.
Note: Security provided by INS.
Wrestling returns, except this time it will be a Battle Royal with Othor Cain, Ben Allen, Kim Wade, Haley Fisackerly, Alan Lange, and “Big Cat” Donna Ladd all in the ring at the same time. The Battle Royal will be in a steel cage, no time limit, no referee, and the losers must leave town. Marshand Crisler will be the honorary referee (as it gives him a title without actually having to do anything).
Meet KIM Waaaaaade at the Entergy Tent. For five pesos, Kim will sell you a chance to win a deed to a crack house on Ridgeway Street stuffed in the Howard Industries pinata. Don't worry if the pinata is beaten to shreds, as Mr. Wade has Jose, Emmanuel, and Carlos, all illegal immigrants, available as replacements for the it. Upon leaving the Entergy tent, fig leaves will be available in case Entergy literally takes everything you have as part of its Trollfest ticket price adjustment charge.
Donna Ladd of The Jackson Free Press will give several classes on learning how to write. Smearing, writing without factchecking, and reporting only one side of a story will be covered. A donation to pay their taxes will be accepted and she will be signing copies of their former federal tax liens. Ms. Ladd will give a dramatic reading of her two award-winning essays (They received The Jackson Free Press "Best Of" awards.) "Why everything is always about me" and "Why I cover murders better than anyone else in Jackson".
In the spirit of helping those who are less fortunate, Trollfest '09 adopts a cause for which a portion of the proceeds and donations will be donated: Keeping Frank Melton in his home. The “Keep Frank Melton From Being Homeless” booth will sell chances for five dollars to pin the tail on the jackass. John Reeves has graciously volunteered to be the jackass for this honorable excursion into saving Frank's ass. What's an ass between two friends after all? If Mr. Reeves is unable to um, perform, Speaker Billy McCoy has also volunteered as when the word “jackass” was mentioned he immediately ran as fast as he could to sign up.
In order to help clean up the legal profession, Adam Kilgore of the Mississippi Bar will be giving away free, round-trip plane tickets to the North Pole where they keep their bar complaint forms (which are NOT available online). If you don't want to go to the North Pole, you can enjoy Brant Brantley's (of the Mississippi Commission on Judicial Performance) free guided tours of the quicksand field over by High Street where all complaints against judges disappear. If for some reason you are unable to control yourself, never fear; Judge Houston Patton will operate his jail where no lawyers are needed or allowed as you just sit there for minutes... hours.... months...years until he decides he is tired of you sitting in his jail. Do not think Judge Patton is a bad judge however as he plans to serve free Mad Dog 20/20 to all inmates.
Trollfest '09 is a pet-friendly event as well. Feel free to bring your dog with you and do not worry if your pet gets hungry, as employees of the Jackson Zoo will be on hand to provide some of their animals as food when it gets to be feeding time for your little loved one.
Relax at the Fox News Tent. Since there are only three blonde reporters in Jackson (being blonde is a requirement for working at Fox News), Megan and Kathryn from WAPT and Wendy from WLBT will be on loan to Fox. To gain admittance to the VIP section, bring either your Republican Party ID card or a Rebel Flag. Bringing both and a torn-up Obama yard sign will entitle you to free drinks served by Megan, Wendy, and Kathryn. Get your tickets now. Since this is an event for trolls, no ID is required. Just bring the hate. Bring the family, Trollfest '09 is for EVERYONE!!!
This is definitely a Beaver production.
Note: Security provided by INS.
Trollfest '07
Jackson Jambalaya is the home of Trollfest '07. Catch this great event which promises to leave NE Jackson & Fondren in flames. Sonjay Poontang and his band headline the night with a special steel cage, no time limit "loser must leave town" bout between Alan Lange and "Big Cat"Donna Ladd following afterwards. Kamikaze will perform his new song F*** Bush, he's still a _____. Did I mention there was no referee? Dr. Heddy Matthias and Lori Gregory will face off in the undercard dueling with dangling participles and other um, devices. Robbie Bell will perform Her two latest songs: My Best Friends are in the Media and Mama's, Don't Let Your Babies Grow up to be George Bell. Sid Salter of The Clarion-Ledger will host "Pin the Tail on the Trial Lawyer", sponsored by State Farm.
There will be a hugging booth where in exchange for your young son, Frank Melton will give you a loooong hug. Trollfest will have a dunking booth where Muhammed the terrorist will curse you to Allah as you try to hit a target that will drop him into a vat of pig grease. However, in the true spirit of Separate But Equal, Don Imus and someone from NE Jackson will also sit in the dunking booth for an equal amount of time. Tom Head will give a reading for two hours on why he can't figure out who the hell he is. Cliff Cargill will give lessons with his .80 caliber desert eagle, using Frank Melton photos as targets. Tackleberry will be on hand for an autograph session. KIM Waaaaaade will be passing out free titles and deeds to crackhouses formerly owned by The Wood Street Players.
If you get tired come relax at the Fox News Tent. To gain admittance to the VIP section, bring either your Republican Party ID card or a Rebel Flag. Bringing both will entitle you to free drinks.Get your tickets now. Since this is an event for trolls, no ID is required, just bring the hate. Bring the family, Trollfest '07 is for EVERYONE!!!
This is definitely a Beaver production.
Note: Security provided by INS.
There will be a hugging booth where in exchange for your young son, Frank Melton will give you a loooong hug. Trollfest will have a dunking booth where Muhammed the terrorist will curse you to Allah as you try to hit a target that will drop him into a vat of pig grease. However, in the true spirit of Separate But Equal, Don Imus and someone from NE Jackson will also sit in the dunking booth for an equal amount of time. Tom Head will give a reading for two hours on why he can't figure out who the hell he is. Cliff Cargill will give lessons with his .80 caliber desert eagle, using Frank Melton photos as targets. Tackleberry will be on hand for an autograph session. KIM Waaaaaade will be passing out free titles and deeds to crackhouses formerly owned by The Wood Street Players.
If you get tired come relax at the Fox News Tent. To gain admittance to the VIP section, bring either your Republican Party ID card or a Rebel Flag. Bringing both will entitle you to free drinks.Get your tickets now. Since this is an event for trolls, no ID is required, just bring the hate. Bring the family, Trollfest '07 is for EVERYONE!!!
This is definitely a Beaver production.
Note: Security provided by INS.
27 comments:
Trump has destroyed the Republican Party. All that’s left is the racist, financially illiterate, Cosplay Christian, career hypocrites that are more willing to sell out their country than to make an honest attempt to help anyone with lower than 8 figures in the bank.
I was not a Trump supporter in 2016, but I will be his biggest one in 2020. He has taken our country back from corrupt Obama and truly exposed establishment Repubs (even from this state). Trump wins in same manner in 2020. None of these clowns could come close to him. The Democrats are scary and would do anything to take our freedoms away. God help this country if Trump does not win.
With the economy being lifted onto a house of cards built by the Fed, opponents of the administration might be throwing their bets on the impending crash that will be the result of continued pouring of cheap money into Wall St banks which the president has strongly pushed for. Coming out of the Bush II debacle of 2007-8 seemed a hard hill to climb for many but instead of getting our house in order in the aftermath of that Washington has been buying chips with IOUs with no concern for who will be covering his losses. And a collapse these days might be more than many Americans can easily survive financially. We're out of QEs.
I've little doubt that Sid is correct in assessing the chances of the Democrats if they move too far too the left.
The problem is that to win a primary, both parties cater to their extreme bases, both of which lack a coherent, workable notion of economics or government.
Sid does a good job of reminding us of the dangers of socialism gone wild but forgets to note that capitalism gone wild doesn't work either. Debt is debt whether it's acquired in giving more wealth to the wealthy or throwing it at the poor.
Sadly, stupid is " in" these days as is the self-delusion of wanting to believe that which is too good to be true. You can't keep all you earn and have a functioning society nor can you be sustained with money you haven't earned and have a functioning society. Our rich are as delusional as the Romanovs and our poor as delusional as the Argentines or those who expected Stalin or Mao to save them. God knows none of you look at Sweden or Switzerland for rational middles. So , you've put our rational citizens who realize that moderation works an untenable position. What both parties want is to be the only party and that's totalitarism...be it an oligarchy or socialism.
Intelligent voters should never forget that despite their so-called "ideological differences", the one thing politicians of both parties have in common is their ability to say anything, and take any position, that will get them ELECTED. That's all that counts. Once elected they can backtrack, excuse, and outright lie, until their original promises become irrelevant. The new political order is to pander to the fears, desires, and animus of the people in their district or their party,THEIR BASE...the interests of the country at large be damned. Whether you can actually deliver the often outrageous promises you make to your base doesn't matter, just get elected. The President made his outrageous promises based on the fears, desires, and animus of his base and it worked. He now has the bully pulpit and need only attack his detractors as the obstructions to his inevitable inability to deliver the most blatant of his promises. The same will be true of Democrat candidates who promise the frustrated denizens of their urban pits all kinds of socialist "programs" which they could never deliver. When they win, they'll blame the repubs as obstacles to delivery, if they lose it's irrelevant and they can mount their protests. All that counts is WINNING POWER. Both parties. They have no principles, no ideology, JUST WIN BABY!
As Harry Truman said:
"Socialism is what they called public power.
Socialism is what they called social security.
Socialism is what they called farm price supports.
Socialism is what they called bank deposit insurance.
Socialism is what they called the growth of free and independent labor organizations.
Socialism is their name for almost anything that helps all the people.
When the Republican candidate inscribes the slogan “Down With Socialism” on the banner of his “great crusade,” that is really not what he means at all.
What he really means is, “Down with Progress — down with Franklin Roosevelt’s New Deal,” and “down with Harry Truman’s fair Deal.” That is what he means."
Trump is a forward thinker. His tweets are indeed strategic.
Oh, yes, indeed, the pie-eyed Dem socialists are a-fixin’ to get a proper trouncing, bless their mushy little hearts. President Trump certainly has his flaws, but one of them is not fecklessness. He knows exactly what he is doing, on whom he relies for ongoing support, and on which side his bread is buttered, etc., etc. While each of the (at best) unappealing and (at worst) utterly repugnant Democrats in the comically crowded field can each lay claim to some fringe-y whining gimme-gimme segment of the electorate, our President remains a huge comfort to those of us who are simply tired of “progressive” nonsense that is...anything but.
Why not? Trump is an extremist. He will say damn near anything whether gross exaggeration or outright lie and his supporters will simply say, "Well that's just Trump being Trump". So in this atmosphere why shouldn't the opposition be extremist and unreasonable? It's a two edged sword. You can't reasonably expect a return to the middle of the road when the country is happily driving through the ditches. May the best jive win.
I'm personally ready for another decades long war to defend or Holy Ally in the Middle East. It is our duty as a Judeo-Christian Nation.
Bomb Iran!
#NukeAyatollah
#MIGA
8:33 Yes without Trump we are doomed. He saved us from the Russians, the Chinese, the crazy North Koreans, the hordes from Mexico and Central America, the Iranians, the Martians, etc. He has balanced the out of control budget and brought the deficit under control. He has debunked the global warming bullshit and pulled us out of all treaties that slow our useful pollution of the environment. HE has made our enemies think once and our friends think twice. he has saved us form certain death at the hands of Obama. He makes sense, all the time. He is our salvation. NOT!!!!!!!
Trump is not a "capitalist" or a (modern political) "conservative," he is a bullshit artist and a damned good one. He didn't make his money by deploying his capital to produce products, services or income, he talked others into deploying their capital for him, took his profit off the top and let the chips fail where they might. If the venture continued to make money, he took a healthy share of that ongoing income stream (and all of the credit for the success) and if it crashed and burned, he walked away (and blamed others for the failure). That may sound like a blanket condemnation of him, but it is not. He was not a "cheat," fraudster or scam artist in the Madoff or Lamar Adams model; his "deals" were real, had potential to make money and did make his "investors" money at least as often as they did not. Moreover, the entities he dealt with are fairly charged with the knowledge of his methods, i.e., those entities were and are grownups who knew or should have known what and with whom they were dealing as well as the risks associated with so doing.
As to Trump as POTUS, about all that can be said is that 2020 is shaping up to be a repeat of 2016: to paraphrase, Trump is worst possible candidate for the job...except for all the others who want it and stand any chance of getting it. The positive thing is that whoever wins, and given the complexity of US in its government, economy, societal complexities, etc., no POTUS can easily or readily bring about the end of the "American dream." The sad and scary thing is that the inhabitants of the US can easily destroy both the dream itself as well as the ideal it represents. But not by electing a particular person in 2020.
As to the Mississippi office-seekers attempting to leverage Trump, they are who and what they are: mostly unsophisticated rubes attempting to secure their places at the trough by whatever means they think will do it. The problem they face with portraying themselves as "mini-Trumps" is twofold: they are not nearly as smart or sophisticated as Trump and Trump does not like, respect or wish to associate with any of them. An imperfect comparison would be folks who think themselves aligned with and/or like the Kardashian clan - the Kardashian bunch want your "support" and through that, huge amounts of money and fame for themselves, not to be "friends" or hang out with pissants like you.
Say and believe what you will, but he's better than the previous guy and better than the alternative presented on the ballot three years ago.
11:45 He also beats a sharp stick in the eye. What a solid endorsement!
Well, TDS has made to JJ. Some of these "post" are bonkers.
1:34 speak for yourself. I’d take the stick in the eye personally.
I voted for Donald Trump because I wanted him to secure the border and Make America Great Again like The Andy Griffith Show. Instead he is doing photo ops with rapper's wives in the Oval Office and dumping busloads of illegals into the centers of American cities.
I'm beginning to think the man is a con artist and we got bamboozled.
When I see the comment 'a nation of immigrants', I think this is a person who doesn't understand what is happening. The Dims aren't crying for immigrants. They are crying for illegal immigrants. They prefer folks with little wealth or ability to produce wealth because they want them to be dependant on taxpayer money and hope they will vote Dim. That's all it is. Before we talk about changes to immigration policy, we've got to secure the border. In the past we have made deal in congress - if you will give amnesty to this group we promise to secure the border. Then the border doesn't get secure. That's not going to happen this time.
To 8:22 who thinks Trump has destroyed the R party - wake up. The elected officials of the R party gave it away. They stood by and did nothing while Oboma ran over them for eight years. They just knew they would be called racist if they said how dumb his policies really were. The voters saw this and didn't agree. Along came Trump and he understood what millions of us voters understood - they will call you racist no matter what. So you just ignore that and propose things that actually work. When the Dim say really dumb things, you call them out. Trump is doing a tremendous job.Can you think of any other President who was better at keeping his promises? His biggest problem is not the Dims, or the media, or the deep state, it's RHINOS like 8:22 who claim to be conservative but won't support a President who does conservative things 95% of the time. Y'all need to quit whining about losing the party and help the man save the country. Thing is, there will never be another Trump, so in six years you get another chance. In the meantime, stop throwing rocks and help. The other side is insane and you know it.
It’s all going to come down to Russia again. If the Republicans are able to successfully block the cyber security and voter protection bills currently in discussion, they may be able to allow Russia to steal this election again. If they cave and allow more protection to the process, the dems win in a landslide. Mississippi has done their part so far with CHS taking one for the Russians and blocking all so far in.committee.
You people who write inane walls of text should be required to donate $5 to Kingfish to have your post approved since he has to read the entire pointless rambling.
Also RINO is an acronym for Republican In Name Only you don't just capitalize the name of the animal.
"What he really means is, “Down with Progress — down with Franklin Roosevelt’s New Deal,” and “down with Harry Truman’s fair Deal.” That is what he means."
And then the money eventually runs out, and the true Conservatives (i.e. Adults) have to clean up the mess while both Democrats and Republicans point fingers and stare at their navels.
@ July 24, 2019 at 8:22 AM – You hit it dead on the head my friend
@ Rod Knox – with the current tribal environment – the only thing these people care about is hot rhetoric from their favorite party. You are actually hitting on something tangible and real, I totally understand where you are coming from. But when the ball drops, the Mississippi GOP faithful will spin it squarely on Barack Obama and the current culprits elected to office will not be held accountable
@ July 24, 2019 at 9:00 AM – good point! What you said is fair and rational, wish we had more voters like you
@ July 24, 2019 at 9:05 AM - Intelligent voters should never forget that despite their so-called "ideological differences", the one thing politicians of both parties have in common is their ability to say anything, - true, but the Republicans run the show in Mississippi and all of them have co-signed the ideology of a pathological liar in Donald Trump. Whatever the Democrats are saying, is not working.
@ July 24, 2019 at 11:00 AM – isn’t funny to see “Southern Conservatives” champion the ways of a carpet bagging New York City Yankee that switched parties to win office? Simply amazing indeed
I don’t like Trump but will vote for him. Democrats have exactly zero to offer. Democrats have a very sick mind.
Trump has been absolutely terrible for the firearms industry. Under the Obama admin we saw the approval of Pistol Braces, Bumpfire Stocks, Binary Triggers, and Short barrel Shotguns. As well as overall high profit margins in the industy. Since he left office we have seen numerous bankruptcies and a Republican president who actually caved and banned a novelty stock and has signalled he might target suppressors to appease the left.
Thats why I'm voting for Tulsi Gabbard. With her in office we might see the NFA registry reopened for brand new legal full auto receiver registrations.
I pray for republicans every day. They are delusional and don’t believe in science or healthcare so they must go through their sickness with no help. It’s very sad:(
And they don't believe in Hollywood. Oh my.
The contest for dumbest and most inane blog participant for the week has boiled down to a battle between Catfish and Rod Knox. Because I can't fathom TWO people among us with this intelligence level, I am left to wonder if they are the same.
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