Jackson Jambalaya

It wasn't the attack on motherhood that angered people, DL. It was the line about the ultimate role for women is being a homemaker. When I took Logic in college, I had to find uses of common fallacies. I wish I knew about your column then. Every week, you serve them up.

I too applauded Butker for his courage - except for one thing that must be made perfectly clear: Motherhood is not a "vocation" or a "career". Those are references to one's mode of livelihood or how they make a living - i.e., paying the bills. The title of the this should be:
"Motherhood is a Praiseworthy, Heroic Responsibility"

The perversion that motherhood (and fatherhood) are a "vocation" is one of main reasons Americans are so financially illiterate. They think that the emotional symbiosis that exists between parent and child is more important than learning how to sustain a healthy marriage for the long-haul, and to encourage self-sufficiency in their young.

Until young adults are able to rationally choose a compatible partner, and financially support a child via true vocational pursuits, they have no business whatsoever having or raising children.

Evidently 2:05 never watched MSNBC or The View. DL is a logician compared to Katie Turr, Whoopi, Joy, et al.

Stick to kicking.

Sounds like to me he was saying, "To the girls sitting before me today, I admonish you to stay in the kitchen and the bedroom. Your Catholic faith admonishes you to be obedient and bear many children".

@2:05, which fallacies did Gardner employ? Be specific.

I agree with 8:34am.....just because you say there are fallacies used, does not make it so. I don't see them.

That's like saying, "You're wrong and misleading - because I say you are". This is how far too many youth think today....sadly, some of those very youth are 40 years old now.

He used the fallacy of stacking the deck. He argued that Butker was criticized for endorsing motherhood. Butker was attacked for telling women that being a homemaker is the best outcome for their lives. DL did not include that part of the speech. Obviously, many others did not read the speech either.

Ok 9:31am if that was part of the speech that DL left out, it's still not a fallacy. It's merely a position. You saying it's false without any evidence is irrational and a fallacy in and of itself. Yes, women in the modern age have infinitely more choices in the past. Butker was merely "advocating" for one opportunity. A billion women have an opportunity to ignore it or give it a try if they wish. Being a career woman and a homemaker is where modern feminism as abysmally failed as evidenced by the factually lower marriage/birth rates while at the same time evidenced by the abysmally low levels of happiness reported among so many women. Women were flogged to believe "you can have it all". Many now have realized that for 90% of women that will never be true.

6:55 am Anyone who relies on media or celebrities or political propagandists or their preacher to form their opinions failed at logic already.

The View is as useful as Hannity or Bannon. Reading the Bible or Torah or Koran and text book ( every page not just selectively scanning) on religions is a more logical as well. If you don't you are being " spoon fed".

Logic requires being able to think for yourself.

Butker was expressing an opinion. Gardner is expressing an opinion. There are people here expressing an opinion, that are mad Butker, and Gardner, expressed an opinion. You can't make this up.

Yeah, put those women in their place Daniel. We all love it when athletes insert themselves into political and social commentary. They shouldn’t shut up and play ball, we need to hear their valuable insights into our culture especially when we agree with their politics. Way to stay consistent Daniel, it makes your message so much more powerful when you fully support Colin Kaepernick and BLM protesters and then also support MAGA athletes the exact same way.

11:14 I'm no fan of Hannity or Bannon, but if you think those guys are as looney as the View (or as racist) then you are the one who needs to study logic.

11:53 Ding! Ding! Ding!
We have a winner!

Liberals love free speech as long as it agrees with them. Disagree? Then free speech becomes "dangerous."

This isn't about freedom of speech. And it's not about thinking motherhood is "less than" either. And it's disingenuous to allege such.
He gave a COLLEGE commencement speech with women graduates. It was disrespectful to them. This was THEIR day to celebrate and shine. This was about them. Not him. To lecture them about about having a vocation at home instead was disrespectful to THEM. While he is entitled to his opinion and while he may even have some valid points, it wasn't the time or place to preach it. Those graduates didn't invest 4+ years of hard work to be told that they shouldn't follow their dreams and to flush their degree instead.

Even women have sense enough to know that motherhood is a praiseworthy, noble vocation. What they can’t stand is a man reminding them it’s so.

May 26, 2024 at 8:36 PM, so, we can put you down as a no? This may come as a shock, but your opinion carries no more weight than any other opinion. Neither, does it make Mr. Butker wrong, or right. Now, go ahead, and clinch your little fist as your face turns red, while screaming at the sky.

He was invited to deliver his speech, he did. If it was disrespectful, or not, isn't for you to decide, it wasn't given for you, unless you were a graduate. There may have been graduates that contemplated choosing the Trad-wife lifestyle. In their case, it was a fantastic speech.

How did you get from a speech, to a lecture, from a lecture, to preaching? You poor outraged thing. How do you consider taking their degree, making a home for their family, raising the next generation of humanity, which maybe their dream, as flushing their degree? And you accused Mr. Butker of being disrespectful.

All, in all, that's just your opinion, man.

11:53 We are of the opinion that both DL and Butker opinions are from two clueless men.

Many of us have married a man we love, enjoyed sex, and raised our children. It's wonderful if the men are supportive. But, raising children lasts only 18 years. They grow up. Some fathers die or decide they want a new family.

We also know many of our friends who desperately wanted children and despite spending fortunes in the effort, could not have any. Not all women are good at being mothers (there have even be news reports on this). Not all women get married so does he want them to have babies anyway and raise them without a father.

It was a speech that made him appear to be clueless. I doubt he let his wife read it first.

May 27, 2024 at 8:04 AM, thanks for your opinion, we can put you down as a no. It will fit right in with the other no opinions.

Speaking of clueless, a real man didn't have to check with his wife.

2:05, wrong. That's NOT what he said.

"For the ladies present today, congratulations on an amazing accomplishment. You should be proud of all that you have achieved to this point in your young lives. I want to speak directly to you briefly because I think it is you, the women, who have had the most diabolical lies told to you. How many of you are sitting here now about to cross this stage and are thinking about all the promotions and titles you are going to get in your career? Some of you may go on to lead successful careers in the world, but I would venture to guess that the majority of you are most excited about your marriage and the children you will bring into this world.

I can tell you that my beautiful wife, Isabelle, would be the first to say that her life truly started when she began living her vocation as a wife and as a mother. I’m on the stage today and able to be the man I am because I have a wife who leans into her vocation. I’m beyond blessed with the many talents God has given me, but it cannot be overstated that all of my success is made possible because a girl I met in band class back in middle school would convert to the faith, become my wife, and embrace one of the most important titles of all: homemaker."

"ONE of the most important titles of all." Nothing remotely close to "you Handmaidens must stay at home,barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen." NOTHING about not ever working, working or staying at home forever.

Sorry that you are triggered by "homemaker" or can't read well or look up facts. You yourself just "served up" a whopper. And you apparently know nothing of the word, "vocation," especially in the context of a Catholic school. Deacons have a vocation, but are often fully employed when becoming one.

He did NOT say stay at home and bake cookies, or whatever your "logic" (or lack thereof) has conjured. He thanks his supportive wife, acknowledges the luxury of an NFL salary that allows her to stay home, and praises her as a wife and mother (among other roles and interests).

But, but..... Happy Elfing Mother's Day to your Mom for putting up with your crap.

vo·ca·tion
/vōˈkāSH(ə)n/
noun
noun: vocation; plural noun: vocations

a strong feeling of suitability for a particular career or occupation.

It kind of looks like this motherhood, and fatherhood, fits the description of a vocation. At least that's what the Oxford Languages dictionary had to say.

3:47 just destroyed 2:05's "logical" post.

Interesting that "homemaker" is not a part of the trade schools listed in vocational schools/colleges, or state funded vocational rehabilitation, etc....anyone care to explain why not?

Because love alone don't pay no bills. Being a homemaker full-time is a privilege...and great if you can arrange for it.

" Being a homemaker full-time is a privilege", so is having a license to drive on a public road. I have found that people will do what they want to do. It is the same with the family situation. If both spouse want the woman to be a homemaker, they will make it work.

8:36 PM. Why did he get a standing 5 minute ovation from the college grads if his speech was so "demeaning"??