Monday, September 20, 2021

Equal Time: Delta & Vaccines

 Dr. Stacey Klutts penned the following explanation on how vaccines affect the Delta variant on his public Facebook page.  Dr. Klutts is the Chief of Pathology and Laboratory Service for the Central Iowa VA Healthcare System.  He is also a Clinical Associate Professor of Pathology and Clinical Microbiology at the University of Iowa. 

It's been a while since I weighed in on anything related to SARS-CoV-2/COVID. I see many posts describing the 'on the ground' impact of the Delta variant with desperate pleas for people to get vaccinated and wear masks. I couldn't agree more with these sentiments, but I will take a bit of a different educational approach. I am in a unique position to report on what is going on with the virus itself and how it interacts with the vaccines. I'm currently the Special Assistant to the National Director of Pathology and Lab Medicine for the entire VA system, with a specific role in advising on elements of COVID testing for the system. As such, I have a front row seat to all of the latest data, as we have to use those data in making our national policy decisions. So, here are a few important points about the Delta variant that may be of acute interest along with some education and salient points about the vaccines. I'll do my best to stitch this all together to where it makes some sense:
1. The Delta variant (lineage B.1.617.2) has a particular collection of mutations in the spike protein (that knob-like projection you see in renderings of the virus) that make it extremely effective in attaching to human cells and gaining entry. If the original CoV-2 strains were covered in syrup, this variant is covered in ultra-fast drying Gorilla Super Glue (industrial strength).
2. There are two recent publications which demonstrate that the viral loads in the back of the throats of infected patients are 1000X higher with Delta variant than with previous variants. I can tell you from data in my own labs, that is absolutely true! We are seeing viral signals we NEVER saw last year using the exact same assays.
3. This much higher load PLUS the ultra-'stickiness' of the Delta strains for adhering to human cells makes it remarkably more infectious than previous strains. You may have heard of R0 (Read: R naught) which is, in a nutshell, the expected number of persons to which an infected person would be expected to transmit the virus. Early versions of the virus had a 2 to 2.5 R0 value. So one infected person would infect two or so people on average. Delta has an R0 of about 8! In the infectious disease world, that's almost unheard of. Chickenpox and Measles are about all we have ever seen that spread that efficiently from human to human. This changes the story line completely from earlier in the pandemic and makes this surge, in many ways, like a completely different pandemic event.
4. There is another recent publication out of Singapore with data that confirms something we suspected. I will explain more about the 'why' on this below when I talk about vaccines, but the gist is this: The viral loads in the throats of vaccinated persons who become infected with Delta (more about that below) rises at identical rates as in unvaccinated persons, but only for the first few days. After 5 days or so, the viral loads in the vaccinated person start to quickly drop whereas those in the unvaccinated person persist. This key set of observations is important for several reasons relating to vaccinated persons serving as vectors for spread (see below).
5. This pandemic, round 2 is primarily being observed in younger patients than in round 1. Our Children's hospitals are even already filling up or full. Because of the Delta viral dynamics, it is much more capable of causing severe disease in a larger swath of the population. You spew enough of any human pathogen on someone without immunity, and it's not going to end well. This sets up very poorly for the beginning of the school year, and it scares me. Check is actually terrifying. I sure hope we have vaccines for the 5-11 year olds soon...
6. Speaking of vaccines...are they working? YES! They are absolutely doing their expected job. We know a lot about vaccines for upper respiratory viruses, as we have been giving the population one every year for decades (influenza). To explain all of this, I need to provide some biological context. When you get a vaccine as a 'shot', the 'antigen' in the vaccine leads to formation of an antibody response. You probably knew that. What's important, though, is that it primarily leads to a specific IgG response. That's the antibody type that circulates around in really high numbers in the blood, is located some in tissues and is more easily detectable by blood tests, etc. What that shot does NOT do is produce an IgA antibody response to the virus at the surface of the throat mucosa. That's the antibody type that could prevent the virus from ever binding in the first place. As such, in a vaccinated person, the virus can still attach like it's about to break into the house, but it doesn't realize that there is an armed homeowner on the other side of the door. When that virus is detected, the IgG beats it up and clears it before the person gets very ill (or ill at all). (Sidebar: Anyone ever had their kid (or themselves) get the 'Flumist' vaccine? Idea there is to introduce the antigens at the surface of the throat mucosa leading to that IgA response that will prevent infection from happening at all. Sounds good and still has a place, but it isn't quite as effective overall as the shot.)
7. The SARS-CoV-2 vaccines are designed to prevent disease/death through that IgG response (though it does also reduce infections somewhat). How good are the vaccines at doing all of this with Delta? CDC released data just this week addressing that very question. Punchline: They're remarkably good! The vaccine shows an 8-fold reduction in the development of any symptomatic disease secondary to Delta. For hospitalization, it is a 25-fold reduction. That's 25X! Remarkable. For death, it is also 25X! This is a very effective pharmaceutical class when looking at overall efficacy toward the intended/expected purpose. When looking at the very tiny side effect profile, I'd personally consider it one of the best overall pharmaceuticals on the market in any class of drugs.
8. So, you're vaccinated? First of all, a sincere, heart-felt thank you! But you may now ask, so why do I again need to wear a mask? We talked about disease, hospitalizations and death in 7. above, but what about infections themselves? Vaccine is now estimated to provide a 3X reduction in infection. For reasons that I tried to make clear above, it isn't surprising that the vaccine is less effective at preventing infection vs preventing disease. We are indeed seeing detectable virus, at high levels, in asymptomatic, vaccinated persons when we test them prior to procedures, etc. We have a few that are mildly symptomatic, too. While we now understand that the virus fades from the back of the throat pretty quickly in a vaccinated person, we also know that an infected, vaccinated person can transmit this very infectious virus to others for at least a couple of days. So, as before, you are being asked to wear a mask to primarily protect others. We need you again to interrupt the transmission cycle of the virus, as you don't know when you might be infectious. The vaccine alone cannot interrupt this cycle when there is a lot of virus in the community within unprotected persons.
9. What's next? Living in Iowa, I see the tsunami wave on the horizon. It's typical for respiratory viruses to begin in the southern US (where it is hot and everyone goes indoors to escape the heat) and then creep north to affect those areas when it gets colder (and people go inside because it's getting colder). It's definitely coming to Iowa and areas in the northern half of the US. If you live in those northern areas and are not vaccinated, it is not too late, but it's getting damn close. It's also time to start wearing masks in public again (ugh...I hate it, too). For areas like AR, MO, LA, FL, etc, the tsunami is already on your shores. If you weren't already off the beach, you might be in trouble. However, if you are there and haven't yet been affected, run like hell to higher ground (get vaccinated, wear a mask). I beg of you, please observe that wave and don't ignore it. I have zero political agenda (hate politics). I'm just a nerdy scientist and physician who loves you all, and I certainly don't want to see a mass of my friends grieving (or dead) because I didn't yell loud enough to get you and your families off that beach. So, Run! (to your pharmacy...driving is allowed). You don't want any part of this thing w/o vaccine on board.


Anonymous said...

Great, sensible write up. Love to see someone go a bit more in depth explaining how vaccines actually help/work when asking people to get them, rather than just shouting angrily at people who are hesitant.

Anonymous said...

"They are doing their expected job " and that is what ? And NOT ONCE did this trog mention natural immunity due to having this man made super distraction. Ignoring natural immunity on purpose along with leadership and the media ! Come on folks....please wake up. Please.

Anonymous said...

11:34 : So why leave out natural immunity ?

Anonymous said...

Don’t have the vaccine, never had symptoms, not scared. My body my choice. F*ck you Joe Biden.

Justice for COVID said...

Agree with previous comments. Natural immunity is relevant to any COVID discussion yet it is taboo amongst the “experts”.

Anonymous said...

Area infectious disease/immunology expert asks what all the rubes are thinking: So why leave out natural immunity ?

Answer #1: Because many people think they have had covid and don't need to get vaccinated because they have done their own (facebook,internet,smart friends) 'research' and 'evidence' gathering. They decided to postpone getting the vaccine and are part of the problem.

Answer #2: Medical experts have decide to let the stupid people play their stupid games to win their stupid prizes.

Anonymous said...

Can you prove you are naturally immune? Just get the damn shot. It won't kill you.
As for a vaccinated person wearing a mask to protect the unvaccinated? Screw them, they can go get the shot. I'm done disrupting my life for idiots.

Kingfish said...

He discusses it in a later post. He says it can be achieved but too many would die and overwhelm the hospitals. Governor went through the numbers if that once.

Doc doesn't discount it at all, just that it would cost too much to beat the virus

Anonymous said...

This scamdemic was never real and I won’t ever play along.


Anonymous said...

@11:38am, @11:34am While it's true that natural immunity provides excellent protection there is one extremely fatal flaw to the "natural immunity" narrative. It requires, at the bear minimum, that you survive the first round. Further more one has to also hope that they get through first round of Covid without the "long covid" symptoms that are now fairly well documented.

If you've already acquired natural immunity you can certainly weigh your options; however, in no way shape or form should anyone who has not forgo the vaccine in favor of acquiring natural immunity.

Also any data that shows natural immunity > vaccine immunity is inherently flawed for the exact same reason. Vaccines are trying to protect people who would have otherwise died, natural immunity is protecting people who have already survived.

Anonymous said...

12:05 : Had Covid and thus antibodies WHICH MY DOCTOR SAYS protects me more so than the vaccine IN MY CASE. Do you fugging understand this FACT ?

Anonymous said...

The entire medical system has zero credibility. Once you lie to the public, a significant portion will never trust you again.

Odds of getting it is less than one recent chance, less than that of having a serious reaction.

With all the BS spouted about something that me or my family will statistically never get, yea we are not getting an experimental therapy.

The best thing the powers that be could do is call out the obesity pandemic and tell people to put down the fork!

Anonymous said...

KF, yet we have been in this pandemic for two years. Two years KF. This Dr. works for the VA and thus he is a lower level Fauci. Natural Immunity is well on the way among those who were already healthy. I am not anti-vax and even considered it until I actually got Covid. Now ? Nope.

Anonymous said...

@12:39pm - Congrats. How many people did you unknowingly infect and kill when you “got Covid” unvaccinated? It’s not just a choice about your body, you’re making a choice for everyone you come in contact with when you’re infected. Stop with the whole “my body my choice” bullshit. It’s a false equivalent. If you choose not to wear your seat belt and then kill yourself in car wreck by flying through the windshield, fine, your body your choice. But a highly contagious disease isn’t a “my body my choice” decision, it doesn’t matter how you ignorants frame it. Your choice effects more than just you. Period.

Anonymous said...

The covid deaths come about largely as a result of hospital protocols. There are many videos and articles outlining this if you poke around on the web. Pushing people onto the vents is the worst thing to do, not to mention isolating them all alone with no family to see them. We should be treating people therapeutically (not with Remdesivir which does a lot of damage) but with medicines we already have, monoclonal antibodies and vitamins and nutrition.

People sick with covid need treatment, not isolation and fear. I know for a fact some nurses and staff at our biggest local hospital threaten patients (especially unvaxxed) with putting them on ventilators. There is a crusade of punishment going around now. Once you get on the vent, then you go downhill.

Pray for an awakening of our doctors and nurses and hospital admin. Pray that they will see the truth and stop the evil that's happening there.

Anonymous said...

OK, Riddle me this. I went back and looked into the past pandemics of the last 100 years. Nothing in detail, just how long they lasted. Most are over in a year or so. Why is covid so different. Why are people sounding alarm bells and setting our hair on fire by saying a "tsumami is coming" etc. when we are essentially 2 years into this pandemic. I'm not saying this is not real but other things seem at play. I have no doubt this guy is smart and non political, but maybe he can't fathom the thought of going back to his anonymous career where nobody gives a s%#t what he thinks (ie: Dr Fauci). Maybe there's a political move underway that by keeping this thing going it benefits the powers that be. It's beyond me but this is not normal. Seems as if people are rooting for this thing to last forever and screaming at every turn there is no hope.----God help us figure it out before it's too late.

That'sMisterDeplorableToYou said...

Delta has an R0 of about 8! In the infectious disease world, that's almost unheard of. Chickenpox and Measles are about all we have ever seen that spread that efficiently from human to human. This changes the story line completely from earlier in the pandemic and makes this surge, in many ways, like a completely different pandemic event.

Which is pretty much what you'd expect from an lab-engineered virus.

That'sMisterDeplorableToYou said...

It's typical for respiratory viruses to begin in the southern US (where it is hot and everyone goes indoors to escape the heat) and then creep north to affect those areas when it gets colder (and people go inside because it's getting colder).

We call that phenomenon General Lee's revenge.

Anonymous said...

Not worth arguing anymore; to each his own. If you take vaccine then quit worrying about everybody else. The CDC changed the very definition of vaccine recently to accommodate the new science fiction.

Anonymous said...

Explains COVID-19 in a comic format. Enjoy

Anonymous said...

@1:05pm - The Spanish flu pandemic, which is mostly equivalent to what we’re currently experiencing lasted over 2 years, not sure what “research” you did before posting that crap. We’re also not “essentially 2 years” into this one. It started in earnest in March 2020 in the U.S., exactly one and one half years ago. And no, it’s not a conspiracy theory, is a highly infectious pathogen that can kill the unvaccinated ignorant masses. We still have a ways to go, much longer than we should have, due to the “do your own research” crowd. Go get vaccinated please.

they dont know bupkus but stillspout their nonsense here said...

1:05 pm: TLDR could be "Hold my beer and what happens?"

Anonymous said...

12:58 - But the ones who survive will have natural immunity!

Anonymous said...

I am with 12:06, once I get the booster I am done with the mask .

Anonymous said...

I have a few things that I think would be helpful to clarify.

@1:05pm first off, there are many reasons for this. First off many pandemics never went away, they just came in "waves" like smallpox, bubonic plague, etc. Various factors led to decreased severity, eradication in some cases, 100 million people died conferring natural immunity because there was no treatment for it, yay? I guess? I think that's what people are currently peddling for Covid-19 lol, the death rates for this and 1918 pandemic are similar. Also vaccines play a part in some of this as well but at the end of the day every pandemic is going to be different, and follow different trends.

To everyone else blathering on about natural immunity, refer to @12:35pm for a good write up on why it's not a great option; however, beyond this there is something y'all need to understand. The paper you're citing is out of Israel, and it was a large scale study but the findings are not iron-clad. What do I mean by this? It's not that there's any reason for me to doubt the findings themselves but you must understand the % increased protection you see cited is relying on extremely small numbers. When it comes to hospitalizations, for instance, out of the 32,000 people they took a look at 1 previously infected person was hospitalized, and 8 vaccinated people were hospitalized. That is what a lot of these percentages are based off of. Extremely small numbers that would likely change drastically from one study to another.

Anonymous said...

12:49 ? Say what ? I was at home when the fever started and infected no one.... FACTOID was my wifes best friends vaccinated Aunt that gave us the crap ! Yes I know, tinfoil hat....Uncle Joe is king....Fauci makes you wet....but be all damned ! I was sickened by an elderly vaccinated women. So you can go....

Anonymous said...

@12:58pm No one wants to "push someone" onto a vent, indeed it is the absolute worst thing for them. Not for the reasons that you believe but simply because by the time people need a vent they are likely to die.

Anonymous said...

Go read the BioNtech website. This is just the beginning.

Anonymous said...

Covid is communism rebranded.

Anonymous said...

1:32 : First case of Covid 19 can be traced to September 2019 and since there is an international airport in dang near every can do the friggin math. Remember all sickly folks around late 2019 that no one could diagnose ? It wasn't reported to the masses until March design like the virus. Meh, divisions are set. All that is left are the matches. Can't wait.

Anonymous said...

"The SARS-CoV-2 vaccines are designed to prevent disease/death through that IgG response (though it does also reduce infections somewhat)."

A. That's not what we were told in February 2021 when the government was attempting to ramp up vaccinations.

B. He has no idea if it reduces infections "somewhat" as the CDC stopped tracking breakthrough cases in May. There is no data on it other than anecdotal data, and, boy, have we seen plenty of anecdotal evidence of breakthrough infections, which in a serious world, would stop the vaccine to enter policies. Wonder what the definition of "somewhat" is in the medical community?

Anonymous said...

Why don't folks talk about treating the symptoms? Ivermectin, Hydroxychloroquine seem pretty effective with recovery, yet that would not make the controlling liberals or pharma companies $$$$. @12:49, the whole argument with my body my choice, is to get you to admit it's not just your body... and in that instance, you conceded your right to promote abortion. Furthermore, why would you take advice from Liberals who don't know where life begins and are ok with killing in the womb? We just don't trust you...

Anonymous said...

Not preaching just offering opinion. Vaxed, 74, heart condition. In my home state reading the numbers on the local TV news will scare the crap out of you. However, if you go the the state health web site and look at actual numbers, its a different story, scary but not as much. Like total beds available vs covid-19 beds in use, vents total vs vents used by sick folks vs vents used by covid-19.

The one thing that has always been posted was recovery number/percentages. Now recovery numbers have disappeared. The numbers are still high but try to find them.

Anonymous said...

16-2 and the 16 is a no vote. That was the vote from FDA on Fauci/Biden booster rollout. And it pissed Big Tony off to no end . Why ? Could it be that the check won't clear unless 200 million are vaxxed ? Dirty and very dark money folks. Fauci even looks like a damn minion of Satan. He's managed to keep his position thru 4 or 5 presidents.

Anonymous said...

@2:42pm Trust me when I say we are exploring every treatment route possible. HCQ & Ivermectin are made by two extremely large company that would see billions in income if these two worked in treating Covid-19 but event hey will not say they will, this should speak volumes to you.

Trust me when I say when Large pharma companies, who in past have gotten in trouble for peddling bullshit claims, won't back something that could make you billions it says a whole lot.

Also just two add, clinical trials have not backed up the efficacy of either treatment, they aren't dangerous but they are also not helpful

Calm Down said...


Correct, the 'public health' authorities have lost all credibility. Obfuscating, misleading, and just outright wrong over and over again. At some point, I'd suggest they stop digging that hole. How?

Acknowledge their mistakes.
Show some humility in the face of the unknown.
Recognize the urgent need to study the existing data on repurposed drugs for early treatment.
Admit that the VAERS signals indicate a real risk of severe and life threatening side effects.
Toss a big retirement party for Fauci. His overdue.
Get off the mandate/passport fetish.
Stop with the hypocritical two step with the masks. They don't help. Never have.

This virus is not close to the Spanish Flu in terms of death rate.

Anonymous said...

The question is: How many mRNA shots can the body take before it simply gives up?

Anonymous said...

Only in this backwards, science-denying bizarro-land of Mississippi, where politics and a skewed interpretation of Christianity trump research and facts, would facts (i.e., science) be presented as "equal time."

In educated society, "equal time" would no doubt belong to those who insist COVID is "the sniffles."

Anonymous said...

"tiny side effect profile"??? Near/possibly over 10k deaths from vaccine is tiny?? They are really pushing this aren't they. The vaccine has a .002 death rate....death from COVID in the 5-12 age range is .00005, why would you push a vaccine that has a higher death rate than the disease?

Anonymous said...

3:49 : To some Covid was the sniffles. I know you know what i'm getting at....and you know that I know what i'm getting at....and if I know that you know and you know that I know then you know.

Anonymous said...

"Why don't folks talk about treating the symptoms? Ivermectin, Hydroxychloroquine seem pretty effective with recovery, yet that would not make the controlling liberals or pharma companies $$$$."

My uncle has been on a ventilator going on 10 days. He asked for Ivermectin when he was hospitalized 20 days ago. The hospital he was admitted to refused the request. You have to wonder if it would have helped - how would you ever know for sure but it sure would have been nice for him to to have been able to throw everything in the arsenal at it.

Anonymous said...

The scientist that created the tech that built these vaccines even says natural immunity is better. And this is a findable fact folks. I'll coin it a FFF. YOU ARE WELCOME.

Anonymous said...

@3:25pm I see you're concerns & let me address a few for you.

"Acknowledge their mistakes." - done, over & over again when mistakes were made, see early pandemic mask stance, they were wrong on efficacy & thus changed stance & apologized.

"Show some humility in the face of the unknown." - They are, which is why they preach caution, rather than "Ivermectin, HCQ cure it all so pandemics over!"

"Recognize the urgent need to study the existing data on repurposed drugs for early treatment." HCQ/Ivermectin have been studied...studied again...studied again...brought back to life & studied can beat a dead horse all you want on HCQ its DOA, Ivermectin looks like a dying horse but there are still a few large scale trials left that could change its prognosis.

"Admit that the VAERS signals indicate a real risk of severe and life threatening side effects." - no one thinks they don't, VAERS reports are evaluated, this takes time, but generally they paint a far grimmer picture of side-effects than really exists. When serious ones are found we halt the vaccine, see J & J, but you must weigh risks of vaccines vs. risks of infections, and when you do this with politics removed vaccines are the obvious choice.

"Stop with the hypocritical two step with the masks. They don't help. Never have." - this is just wrong, the science wasn't there early on in pandemic but it is now, any notion that masks don't help is ludicrously out of touch with reality.

"This virus is not close to the Spanish Flu in terms of death rate." - Actually they are nearly identical, thankfully we have vaccines/treatments that were unheard of in 1918 so we have faired far better. We also have more effective containment measures, and masks are eons better now/more accessible to the public than they were at that time when your best bet was a thin scarf. That said the estimated death rate for the Spanish flu is nearly identical to Covid-19, where they differ is in morbidity amongst age groups.

Anonymous said...

4:32, thank you for the point by point rebuttal of Covid misinformation. But Calm Down will never admit his year and a half of deliberate mistakes. In fact, he'll double down. On dumb. Sad life.

But the saddest thing is someone who looks at 2000 new dead a day, and thinks spreading false information is good. That's not simply sad, but sick.

Anonymous said...

Flus, colds, upper respiratory illness, strep etc. will continue to cycle through year after year. The vulnerable to different extents will succumb to each wave. Every year for the next 40 we will see an increase in excess deaths because we are headed full speed into a health crisis of obesity, heart/kidney/liver disease and diabetes. People looking for an excuse to exercise power and control have ready made fear stats for as long as we have mass obesity and bad lifestyles. For the most part, those who haven’t overburdened their immune systems will be strong enough to fend off most pathogens. In other news, I was recently in a car crash and barely survived because the other driver wasn’t wearing a seat belt.

Calm Down said...


Your claims ring hollow.

Mistakes acknowledged? on mask efficacy? The early stance was 'stop buying masks. if you're wearing a mask you're an idiot." Which then changed to "you must wear a mask in between bites seated at an indoor restaurant, unless you're one of the sophisticated people at Obama's blowout bday party". And we've yet to see any 'new science' that shows masks work (excluding a fitted N95, properly worn, which may have a small effect).

Humility? Not even close. Caution would dictate avoiding experimental gene therapy and applying well known over the counter - D3, C, exercise, diet. Not a peep.

You mention ivermectin and HCQ studies. No urgency, and only scoffing retorts, such as yours. Not helpful if you're actually looking to change any minds.

The good doctor Fauci never mentions VAERS. It's well known that side effects are underreported. Sure, maybe not all are linked to the vax, but some % are. I've spoken to doctors who insist on getting the vax but are completely unaware of the existence of the VAERS site or what it's for.

Masks - what study can you point to that show masks work? Particularly cloth and paper that we see our appointed betters rip off when they think the cameras are off? This is most glaring example of why many are skeptical. If this really was an deadly threat, wouldn't Joe, Fauci, AOC, name the liberal, set the mask example? They don't, and meanwhile, they encourage large protests (for their favorite causes), open borders, 4th of July celebrations, bday parties (for their team), but berate the commoner who wants to be able to breathe.

Spanish Flu - Axxually, the spanish flu killed 675,000 in 1918/19, when the population was 103,000,000 - a rate of .0065 - over 300% deadlier than covid.

I'm fine with you getting the vax and as many boosters as you like. I'll continue to make my own judgements about the covid vax.

Anonymous said...

Covid equals money.

Anonymous said...

Can some of the smarter doctors here check my evaluation from this article from the New England journal of medicine related to the safety of the vaccines during pregnancy?

Nearly every medical professional in the country believes the vaccines to be perfectly safe for pregnant women to take during any state of her pregnancy.

Upon face value, the data in this report show an event called “spontaneous abortion” as being in line with the normal rate of miscarriage during pregnancy.

In this article, the spontaneous abortion rate was calculated at approx 12.5%, dead in the middle of the normal average of 10-15%.

From the article posted above, please click the link to the “results” tab and from there scroll down to table 4 and read the text below.

From that data we are told there were 827 total participants after they whittled down from the total applicant to who actually met the qualifications.

From that total we are told that 712 resulted in a live birth and we are told that 106 resulted in a spontaneous abortion.

We are also told that a total of 96 of the 104 spontaneous abortions occurred before 13 weeks of gestation.

And we are told that 700 of the 712 pregnancies that resulted in a live birth were among persons who received their first eligible vaccine dose in the third trimester.

The article calculated the result of pregnancy ending in spontaneous abortion at 104/827 or 12.6%.

And that’s a true statement. Of the total participants in the study, 12.6 percent of the pregnancies ended in spontaneous abortion.

Here’s where they are loosing me.

Doesn’t the fact that we are told that 96 of the 104 total spontaneous abortions occurred in the first 13 weeks of pregnancy also indicate that the vaccine must have been given during that same first 13 weeks of pregnancy?

Since we know that 700 of the total received the vaccine during 3rd trimester. That means the amount who received the vaccine during the first 13 weeks could be as many the difference of 827-700=127.

So aren’t we really learning from these facts that being vaccinated during the first 13 weeks of pregnancy is much riskier than what we have previously been told because 96/127=76% of pregnant women who receive the vaccine during the first 13 weeks of pregnancy spontaneously aborted their pregnancy.

We know they had to have been vaccinated prior to the spontaneous abortion or they wouldn’t even be included in the report.

There is also a footnote below but isn’t the denominator really what I’ve described above?

A total of 96 of 104 spontaneous abortions (92.3%) occurred before 13 weeks of gestation. No denominator was available to calculate a risk estimate for spontaneous abortions, because at the time of this report, follow-up through 20 weeks was not yet available for 905 of the 1224 participants vaccinated within 30 days before the first day of the last menstrual period or in the first trimester. Furthermore, any risk estimate would need to account for gestational week–specific risk of spontaneous abortion.

This article has been updated twice. Neither of the revisions include an updated “results” link to this same information.

Can someone smarter than myself please take a look at this and let me know where I am going wrong?


Anonymous said...

I doubt the scientists give an actual flying fk what us dumbasses in Mississippi think about literally anything. We are a third world country, with an education system to match. Doughboy and cronies in charge.

Anonymous said...

I just ordered ivermectin for my recent cancer diagnosis.

My body my choice! I’m going to chemo with my new microwave and ivermectit up my rear.

I did my research!

Microwave on full power with door open on my nads.

I’ll be better in no time!

Anonymous said...

This is what I read in many of the comments to COVID posts, all of which are false:

1. COVID is a hoax designed to bring down (ex-)President Trump.

2. Even if COVID is real, it's no worse that the flu.

3. Even if COVID is real, and it's bad, I'm still entitled to my version of "alternate facts."

4. I have a right to be as knowledgeable and as smart as anyone else, without having to put in the work and a lifetime of study, so my opinion is just as valid as anyone else's.

5. I would have made a great lawyer (because I like to argue and I have rights per No. 4), and I am the Clarence Darrow of the Internet.

6. Everyone who doesn't validate my opinion is a corrupt liar motivated by greed and power.

7. It won't happen to me.

8. Even if I'm wrong, anti-COVID measures deprive me of freedom, so if I die from COVID, I'll die as a patriot defending freedom.

9. I will only be hurting myself, so it's nobody else's business.

10. Even if I do harm others, I owe them nothing, and therefore have done nothing wrong.

Anonymous said...

Project Veritas - undercover videos inside a hospital. Nurse speaks out. They are killing people daily with the required protocol. They will not give life saving medications and are banning and threatening doctors from prescribing. Just like in Mississippi. Murderers. All of them. Since when does the damn state tell a doctor how to practice medicine and what to prescribe to a patient? Obviously it is when the leaders have a perverse financial incentive.

Anonymous said...

You know they's a tracking chip in them vaccines, and they make you sterile to boot. I ain't spouting no conspiracies, just tellin' the truth. The guv'ment is out to get you, and I ain't gonna let no one tell me what to do. To h*ll with everyone but me.
Reading all these post makes me realize that we have a plethora of stupid, misinformed idiots in Mississippi.

Anonymous said...

9:44 PM


Anonymous said...


Anonymous said...

This scamdemic was never real and I won’t ever play along.


Lots of people like you are now un-alive.

But nobody bossed THEM around!

Anonymous said...

Is there really no one here willing to help me understand the facts given in the article about the vaccine safety with pregnant women?

I would appreciate it if someone would be willing to take a look at that and comment on what I put above.

Anonymous said...

They always forget to add the most important applicable “un” to their list:


Anonymous said...

9:44 pm --

You won the Internet.

Spot on.

Anonymous said...

@9:44pm - The Ten Commandments of Freedumbs.

Post my comment Kingfish, you censoring bitch.

Calm Down said...

@7:43 PM

reading that study and the associated correction posted (what a mess that is), I can not make sense of it. As for me, I'd spend a long time discussing with my doctor should I find myself in a situation that would call for me to have to make the decision to tell any pregnant woman to get the vax. If that doctor couldn't break this down for me in a way to be understandable, I'd pass.

It would seem to me that the study reveals a large number of 'spontaneous' abortions in a very small group. Too many to be assured of anything.

I'd fall back on the numbers that have been reported, specifically deaths by age. You'd have to take into account the underlying health of the person involved as well - what preexisting conditions they may have.

I'd also be more skeptical because there is no way they've studied this long enough to assure me that it doesn't affect pregnancy, given that they were injecting it beginning in late January and insisting that it was one size fits all safe. And effective. And so very safe. Sometimes. I only have one wife, and I aim to keep her.

So obviously, I'm not smarter than you.

Anonymous said...

"I'd also be more skeptical because there is no way they've studied this long enough to assure me that it doesn't affect pregnancy..."

There is too much nonsense to address it all. Many doctors have repeatedly tried and thus far we've failed with those who will not attempt to see reality. This will get worse before it gets better. As an old friend and mentor liked to say, "Vaya con Dios, mi amigo...but always listen to your doctor and your lawyer...and never lie to either..." He also liked to say, "If it requires fuel, insurance, maintenance, or has a vagina, you'll probably come out ahead just renting it...," but that's a topic for another time. Or perhaps not. My wife says he had some, er, very old-fashioned ideas. We have our disagreements as all couples do. That said I'm glad I did make that particular "purchase" and it has been worth every penny. It is long past the return policy deadline date anyway but she's stuck with the same old faded receipt...thankfully.

If you want a medical opinion from an actual MD, here it is: talk to your doctor about vaccinations. If you are still unsure, get a second opinion from another doctor. If neither answer meets your requirements but you'll listen to people who aren't anyone's doctor (or even a medical doctor), you have a serious problem and not just about vaccination.

Anonymous said...

PS - For those who may be interested, the New England Journal of Medicine ( has on its homepage a new article, "Safety and Efficacy of the BNT162b2 mRNA Covid-19 Vaccine through 6 Months," and it shouldn't take an account as NEJM has put a lot of these articles up on the public side. I cannot post a direct link as it would have my sub info in it. Although it is fully disclosed, Pfizer funded the study/trial. Since many wouldn't know this offhandedly, "BNT16b2" is the research name for the BioNTech-Pfizer vaccine.

A Pfizer booster is now FDA approved for those at risk or 65-plus. I'm sure there will be a whole new round of nonsense. The earth is not flat. Choose wisely.

Anonymous said...

I appreciate those taking the time to discuss the new England journal of medicine pregnancy safety study. I’m not a pregnant woman nor do I have a pregnant wife at home, I’m not seeking advice from the Internet, I was hoping to have some frank discussion regarding the data published in that article.

Thank you.

Anonymous said...

Another article on the public side of the NEJM some may b e interested in. Again, you'll have to go to the website as I cannot post a direct link. Here is the title:

"Protection of BNT162b2 Vaccine Booster against Covid-19 in Israel"

BNT162b2 is the Pfizer vaccine.

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Trollfest '09

Trollfest '07 was such a success that Jackson Jambalaya will once again host Trollfest '09. Catch this great event which will leave NE Jackson & Fondren in flames. Othor Cain and his band, The Black Power Structure headline the night while Sonjay Poontang returns for an encore performance. Former Frank Melton bodyguard Marcus Wright makes his premier appearance at Trollfest singing "I'm a Sweet Transvestite" from "The Rocky Horror Picture Show." Kamikaze will sing his new hit, “How I sold out to da Man.” Robbie Bell again performs: “Mamas, don't let your babies grow up to be Bells” and “Any friend of Ed Peters is a friend of mine”. After the show, Ms. Bell will autograph copies of her mug shot photos. In a salute to “Dancing with the Stars”, Ms. Bell and Hinds County District Attorney Robert Smith will dance the Wango Tango.

Wrestling returns, except this time it will be a Battle Royal with Othor Cain, Ben Allen, Kim Wade, Haley Fisackerly, Alan Lange, and “Big Cat” Donna Ladd all in the ring at the same time. The Battle Royal will be in a steel cage, no time limit, no referee, and the losers must leave town. Marshand Crisler will be the honorary referee (as it gives him a title without actually having to do anything).

Meet KIM Waaaaaade at the Entergy Tent. For five pesos, Kim will sell you a chance to win a deed to a crack house on Ridgeway Street stuffed in the Howard Industries pinata. Don't worry if the pinata is beaten to shreds, as Mr. Wade has Jose, Emmanuel, and Carlos, all illegal immigrants, available as replacements for the it. Upon leaving the Entergy tent, fig leaves will be available in case Entergy literally takes everything you have as part of its Trollfest ticket price adjustment charge.

Donna Ladd of The Jackson Free Press will give several classes on learning how to write. Smearing, writing without factchecking, and reporting only one side of a story will be covered. A donation to pay their taxes will be accepted and she will be signing copies of their former federal tax liens. Ms. Ladd will give a dramatic reading of her two award-winning essays (They received The Jackson Free Press "Best Of" awards.) "Why everything is always about me" and "Why I cover murders better than anyone else in Jackson".

In the spirit of helping those who are less fortunate, Trollfest '09 adopts a cause for which a portion of the proceeds and donations will be donated: Keeping Frank Melton in his home. The “Keep Frank Melton From Being Homeless” booth will sell chances for five dollars to pin the tail on the jackass. John Reeves has graciously volunteered to be the jackass for this honorable excursion into saving Frank's ass. What's an ass between two friends after all? If Mr. Reeves is unable to um, perform, Speaker Billy McCoy has also volunteered as when the word “jackass” was mentioned he immediately ran as fast as he could to sign up.

In order to help clean up the legal profession, Adam Kilgore of the Mississippi Bar will be giving away free, round-trip plane tickets to the North Pole where they keep their bar complaint forms (which are NOT available online). If you don't want to go to the North Pole, you can enjoy Brant Brantley's (of the Mississippi Commission on Judicial Performance) free guided tours of the quicksand field over by High Street where all complaints against judges disappear. If for some reason you are unable to control yourself, never fear; Judge Houston Patton will operate his jail where no lawyers are needed or allowed as you just sit there for minutes... hours.... months...years until he decides he is tired of you sitting in his jail. Do not think Judge Patton is a bad judge however as he plans to serve free Mad Dog 20/20 to all inmates.

Trollfest '09 is a pet-friendly event as well. Feel free to bring your dog with you and do not worry if your pet gets hungry, as employees of the Jackson Zoo will be on hand to provide some of their animals as food when it gets to be feeding time for your little loved one.

Relax at the Fox News Tent. Since there are only three blonde reporters in Jackson (being blonde is a requirement for working at Fox News), Megan and Kathryn from WAPT and Wendy from WLBT will be on loan to Fox. To gain admittance to the VIP section, bring either your Republican Party ID card or a Rebel Flag. Bringing both and a torn-up Obama yard sign will entitle you to free drinks served by Megan, Wendy, and Kathryn. Get your tickets now. Since this is an event for trolls, no ID is required. Just bring the hate. Bring the family, Trollfest '09 is for EVERYONE!!!

This is definitely a Beaver production.

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Trollfest '07

Jackson Jambalaya is the home of Trollfest '07. Catch this great event which promises to leave NE Jackson & Fondren in flames. Sonjay Poontang and his band headline the night with a special steel cage, no time limit "loser must leave town" bout between Alan Lange and "Big Cat"Donna Ladd following afterwards. Kamikaze will perform his new song F*** Bush, he's still a _____. Did I mention there was no referee? Dr. Heddy Matthias and Lori Gregory will face off in the undercard dueling with dangling participles and other um, devices. Robbie Bell will perform Her two latest songs: My Best Friends are in the Media and Mama's, Don't Let Your Babies Grow up to be George Bell. Sid Salter of The Clarion-Ledger will host "Pin the Tail on the Trial Lawyer", sponsored by State Farm.

There will be a hugging booth where in exchange for your young son, Frank Melton will give you a loooong hug. Trollfest will have a dunking booth where Muhammed the terrorist will curse you to Allah as you try to hit a target that will drop him into a vat of pig grease. However, in the true spirit of Separate But Equal, Don Imus and someone from NE Jackson will also sit in the dunking booth for an equal amount of time. Tom Head will give a reading for two hours on why he can't figure out who the hell he is. Cliff Cargill will give lessons with his .80 caliber desert eagle, using Frank Melton photos as targets. Tackleberry will be on hand for an autograph session. KIM Waaaaaade will be passing out free titles and deeds to crackhouses formerly owned by The Wood Street Players.

If you get tired come relax at the Fox News Tent. To gain admittance to the VIP section, bring either your Republican Party ID card or a Rebel Flag. Bringing both will entitle you to free drinks.Get your tickets now. Since this is an event for trolls, no ID is required, just bring the hate. Bring the family, Trollfest '07 is for EVERYONE!!!

This is definitely a Beaver production.

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