Jackson Jambalaya

Alan Hart is owned.

So is the Mayor and 4 of the Aldermen.

What the hell is the point of this endless batch-posting of emails? Any municipality worth it's salt has a program in place to demand architectural renderings and other planning information on the run-up to any active or courted industrial development activity.

Exactly 5:53. Just like anyone doing their due diligence. Normal process.

Why is Orvis on here? Nothing to do with any of this! But what an invasion of privacy! Let's put all of our daily emails out for all to see. Nothing to hide but wouldn't t feel very good to have everyone over your shoulder. This is WRONG!!

Landing Costco is like winning the Super Bowl - Does Mattice sponsors Disney trips for everyone? No wonder Stacey's not checking into this one.

The emails mean nothing to you. 5:53. It reveals much about Mr. Mattice and Disney.

pg 215. Holy shit, Alan Hart actually writes a letter for Buster Bailey to send to the Mayor? What kind of astroturf operation do they have going on down there?

Then on pg 226 he runs another developer's project plan by Buster Bailey?

It's called 'business', 10:47. If you've never been involved in industrial or economic development there's no way you'll ever understand.

And, no, I've never met Gene McGee or Alan Hart and wouldn't know any of the Ridgeland Aldermen if I met them on the street. I think I was introduced to D.I.Young three or so years ago and all he wanted to do was yak about his military service.

But, to the point....these emails reveal nothing but people doing their jobs and their due-diligence.

Kingfish thinks he's really snagged a jewel here, but, as the saying goes: "Move along. Nothing to see here."

...but, as the saying goes: "Move along. Nothing to see here."

Thank goodness the decision isn't yours to make for us.

Move along now. Go kick your wall.

You get a bunch of "do nothings" elected in Jackson and everyone heaps praise on them and defends their lack of meaningful action to help better the city. You great a group of "forward looking" people elected in Ridgeland and they are the bad guys for trying to grow the city. Go Figure!

By the way, it's been almost a year since Sam's opened in Madison. When is that city's funeral? I Surely it has to be soon.

If someone would just forward Costco a copy of the religious freedom bill wrapped in the state flag, maybe we could end this unfortunate episode and the folks in Ridgeland could focus on voting out McGee and his shyster aldermen in the next election. Done and done.

When I was just a little girl
I asked my mother
What will I be
Will I be pretty
Will I be rich
Here's what she said to me
Que sera, sera
Whatever will be, will be
The future's not ours to see
Que sera, sera
What will be, will be
When I grew up and fell in love
I asked my sweetheart
What lies ahead
Will we have rainbows
Day after day
Here's what my sweetheart said
Que sera, sera
Whatever will be, will be
The future's not ours to see
Que sera, sera
What will be, will be
Now I have Children of my own
They ask their mother
What will I be
Will I be handsome
Will I be rich
I tell them tenderly
Que sera, sera
Whatever will be, will be
The future's not ours to see
Que sera, sera
What will be, will be
Que Sera, Sera

Does anybody know what % of voters live in the neighborhoods that are so unhappy? I have not talked to anyone on the east side of Ridgeland that is upset over Costco, so I am wondering just how big of a threat "vote them out" really is? Seems like a big part of the voting population is going to be more upset if Costco does not come in.

And the above poster is correct, Madison has not rolled up and died after Sams opened.

I don't find anything in these email dumps that supports KF's claim that the smoking gun is really shooting deadly bullets. Anybody that has ever been involved in business deals of this nature - courting major companies to their projects and working with the public officials involved - would find nothing damning in these conversations. Just because some of the pantywad neighbors think that their interests are the only thing that matters and damn everyone else doesn't make it fact.

Move on - nothing here except a few pissed off pseuco-rich egos.

What claim did I make? I've just been posting emails and listings of what is in them.

9:45

As much as I like music, and fondly remember the tune, that was a dumb post.

"I din't do nuthin. I'm just here to help".

I want to know who the secret beneficiaries are of "Operation Santa Claus", which should be disclosed in the financial records now sealed by hinds chancery judge thanks to Barbour Snow et al law firm. The voters of the City of Ridgeland have a right to know how that $29million kickback will be distributed.

This is not an east/west Ridgeland issue, and yes, there are lots of citizens on both sides of I-55 concerned about zoning and proper development in Ridgeland. When property can be rezoned for the good of a particular developer and business, instead of for the good of the city as a whole, it affects the entire city. And Sams is located where it should be--in a commercial area that allows gas stations and fast food concerns; not in an area that was NOT zoned for those purposes.

7:41am, Nobody is getting one dollar of the $29 million. It is a deferred tax credit. You're an idiot. $29 isn't exchanging hands between anyone.

Right, tax credits are worthless. That is why nobody wants them or goes to extreme efforts to jigger the game in order to receive them.

Who is the idiot?

7:41/10:02, idiot. That would be you.
But I do apologize for getting on your level. Not generally my nature. It's just that this $29mil rhetoric gets so OLD. No. One. Pockets. These dollars!!! Someone, please hold a real estate 101 class...maybe business 101...no, let's start with life/common sense 101.

I suspect all this fussing about COSTCO is for nothing---I believe the COSTCO executives will pull out of Ridgeland once they figure out one of their new landlords has scammed over 100 investors out of $26,469,617.26. That is correct---check it our for yourself.

Again to the idiot at 10:02am....I didn't say they are worthless. I said not one dollar of it will change hands. The $29 million doesn't exist. It would eventually exist, but will not be imposed on the development over the years...in order to get the development built, which will generate millions in other tax dollars that will be realized by Ridgeland...and the county...and the state. The city will come out waaaaay ahead.

What is 0% of $0?

Thank you, 10:15.
But 9:55, stop with your voodoo. Ridiculous.

Keep dancing 10:15!

So, 10:15....If, over time, I had to budget 30 million in taxes, knew it was headed my way, knew it was an obligation, you don't think I'd realize a savings windfall under this madness?

If you're renting a room above your mother's garage (something I know you can relate to) for three hundred bucks a month and mom tells you that for the next fifteen years, you can stay rent free, you don't think you'll see a $54,000 monetary benefit that you could spend on a real nice boat that you buy tomorrow on credit (other investments)? You'll probably want to spin this to suggest you'll still have to put the garbage on the curb.

I'm not 10:15, but those are facts. You, 11:11, and others seem to think there is a stash of $29 that is about to be stolen out from under you. It will ultimately be created by the development.

11:59am, I am 10:15am. Give it up. Notice how 11:56am went from accusations of illegal kickbacks and robbing the tax payers to some lame ass example about how he lives in his mother's garage (I generally quit reading when someone on the internet tries to either tell me how smart/rich/good looking they are or tries to act they know anything about some other anonymous person on the net).

I truly think these idiots think $29 million is changing hands. They have no comprehension how developments get built. I seriously doubt there has ever been one significant development built (anywhere) that does not have some form of tax payer funding, helping the deal come to fruition. That is the way it works. Guys like Mattiace cobble all of the entities and financing together, which sometimes does and sometimes doesn't include varying levels of their own equity. Tax incentives are ALWAYS part of the deal. This one is just pissing off a bunch of selfish, rich pricks who somehow thought they bought way more than they did when moving a mile from an interstate and less that a mile from a commercial parkway...in the most heavily populated area of the state.

Thank you 2:56. A voice of reason.

2:56 PM YYYAAAAAaawwwwwnnnnnn SSSSnnnnnoooooorrrreeee ZzzzzzzzzzZZZZzzzzz

How exactly is $29 million being created by this development? To the extent that people are buying things at Costco, 99.99% of which are already available in the Jackson Metro marketplace, all they are doing is shifting their purchases from one store to another. Instead of buying at one store in Ridgeland, where the taxes are going to the city, they are buying at Costco, where the taxes are going to the developer. Or, they are shifting their purchases from stores in other cities, which those cities benefit from, to Costco. Doesn't sound like a good deal to me at all, and I would be pissed off if I was a small business or non-subsidized retailer who has to compete with that.

2:56 - Thanks for playing. You actually believe 29 million is just a magical, free-gratis outcome, manna from Heaven, that neither feathers a nest nor costs the public a dime. And you probably learned this one night at Ticos.

You probably also believe that if Jacktown continues to not charge hundreds of thieves for water they will eventually contribute the equivalent amount of their delinquent payments in in-kind contributions to the city.

6:29, with your mentality, there is no progress, no increased trade, no development, no economic growth.
This draws more/new people into the area, rather than to a competitive market or state, and enhances the small retailers' visibility and traffic.
7:54, your path of logic is completely missing. Perhaps one too many at Ticos for you tonight?

1. The emails prove that inspite of all the denials, the city of Ridgeland changed the zoning all over the city specifically so Costco could come to the highland colony location. That is illegal spot zoning with a blatant attempt to cover it up. Courting major companies for development is good business; intentionally circumventing your own ordinance and then attempting to scam your constituents is bad business.

2. If the developers do not benefit from the $29 million then why are they working so hard to get it? Whether or not it "changes hands" is just semantics. The bottom line is: $29 million in sales tax will be collected from consumers; it will not go to the city or the county or the state; so, where does it go? I think that would be the developer.

In response to April 9 @ 10:31 AM.
As best I can tell, the last time the mayor had an opponent was in 2009. At that time, there were a total of 3398 votes cast. 2527 went to the mayor and 848 went to his opponent. (There were 3 write-ins.) A very small percentage of registered voters seem to vote here in Ridgeland.
There are approximately 2400 signatures on the petition opposing the illegal spot zoning that would have allowed a Costco to come to the proposed location on Highland Colony Parkway.
Whether there are enough votes to elect a new mayor depends on whether the issue continues to be about who does or does not want a costco at the proposed location rather than who does or does not want a mayor and aldermen who think it is ok to circumvent their own ordinance and then lie about having done so. (I.e., "I don't even know what a Costco is." Or "That zoning hasn't been changed in years." Or "We didn't change the zoning for Costco; this is something we need for the whole city." Etc., etc etc.)
This is not about Costco; it's about right and wrong.

NO NO NO! $29 million will not be collected from consumers! Is that honestly what you think? You think $29 million is being collected from consumers? For what? I guess you then think that Mattiace, Hart, and Gene are going to split it up or something? Holy shit, you people are dumb! It does not exist, has never existed, and will never exist.

This is from the MDA web site. "The Tourism Rebate Program provides for a rebate of a percentage of sales taxes collected at the certified project for a period of up to 15 years." My English may not be as good as 6:31's, but this sounds like the developers will be receiving the rebate unless they've qualified for incentives under a different program.

Sales taxes are collected from farm animals, not consumers or customers or shoppers or clients or buyers or purchasers. Farm animals pay sales taxes.

You're English is fine. It is your understanding of tax credits, incentive programs and real estate development that is sorely lacking.

I just want one of you "kickback" people to explain your theory about how this scheme will play out if everything moves forward.

You people are the worst kind of hypocrites. I am sure not a one of you rich pricks took one deduction on your taxes this year. None of you have accountants whose sole job is to make sure you pay the least you can.

Tax deductions are not tax credits, prick. Tax credits are lucrative. Nobody fights this hard for mere deductions. Me thinks you may actually need an accountant to file that 1040EZ.

@10:17pm -- to answer your 2nd question: the $29M, if it's like other incentive/tax rebate deals, will go into the project. Some of it goes toward lowering the cost of the land/site work/other costs, so you can actually make the numbers work for the tenant (meaning Costco probably wouldn't come to Mississippi without a sweetheart financial deal); some of it likely would go toward infrastructure (new roads, underground utilities, etc.); some of it would go toward amenities to make the project worthy of being near Dinsmor (you like those brick pavers, planters, all the trees at Renaissance? I have no idea what they paid for it, but that stuff ain't cheap); and I'm sure there are other expenses that go along with a major development. The developers have to SPEND $100 million first, THEN generate sales tax, THEN get a rebate to help pay back up to 30% of the $100 million... That's how those things work. But I really think that some people believe it's just a $29 million dollar check up front. Asinine.

I have a question for the anti-anything neighbors out there: what did you think was going to eventually be on all that vacant land on Highland Colony Parkway when you moved in to your gated neighborhood? Please try to be realistic when giving your answer. This is not a trick question, I seriously would like to know what you thought.

Did you think it would remain vacant? Yacht club? Bird sanctuary? Government housing? Soccer fields? Dollar General-anchored strip center? Or just what did you have in mind?

What is asinine is using state tax dollars to subsidize "sweetheart financial deals" to entice retail business. That is dumb fuck asinine.

11:48, economic incentives are not "sweetheart financial deals".
11:05 explained it beautifully. You are just in the group mentality. Cognitive Dissonance has set in.

Hey 11:48, just for clarity,'sweetheart deal' is my term - I don't have inside knowledge to know whether it's applicable in this situation. But regardless, if a municipality wants to have nice things, they usually have to pay for them in some way.

How do you think anything/everything of any consequence gets built these days? You'd be naive to think there aren't incentives in almost every deal. It's how cities attract good tenants. It's similar to why GM will offer you $2,000 cash back, or 0% interest if you buy a Buick - they want to make sure you choose them over Ford. If you want world class tenants to come to your town, you need to incentivize them. If you don't want those tenants, don't complain when (a) they go to another town nearby; (b)you are disappointed with the replacement; and (c)your city starts going down the toilet.

By the way, they say using vulgar language is usually a way to disguise lack of knowledge. That may not apply, just something to think about. Have a nice day.

Thanks 11:05am, but I knew the answer. I was just trying to make them think about it. I know that wasn't a good idea, but hopefully with your answer, they can see the truth. Again, that is a bad assumption on my part. These people are rich bullies plain and simple. 11:14am, that is your answer. They have always been able to bully or buy whatever they want, so they figured they would do exactly what they are doing. And for the hypocritical prick at 10:11am....seriously? One reduces the taxable amount (deductions). Credits reduce the tax paid. In my estimation, deductions are shadier than credits, but I am sure the doctors and lawyers involved in this don't ever ever take deductions OR credits...heavens no. Even worse, I guarantee you that any hunters among that group would never do something like claim deer camps as "farm land".

They are all a bunch selfish hypocrites. It is plain and simple to see for those of us not involved directly. They are use to getting their way, so they will rant and rave and sue and generally act like a bunch of spoiled 3 year olds. It is really sad to see, but not unexpected.

"...so you can actually make the numbers work for the tenant (meaning Costco probably wouldn't come to Mississippi without a sweetheart financial deal)"

Only arrogant pricks who think they are way more important than they are use "me thinks". What a douche.

Damn, the sock puppetry is deep on this one KF. Maybe Alan Hart and Gene McGee are doing their own "engagement monitoring" to "control" the conversation here on JJ. As the recently released emails reveal Alan and Gene are both control freaky and paranoid when it comes to their backdoor dealing.

Alan Hart, director of community development, said Ridgeland-based Leadify will help engage and control conversations related to the city....

He said Leadify can set search parameters and monitor social media to find out what people have to say about Ridgeland.

"We might be interested in what are people saying about crime in Ridgeland," he said. "What are people saying about Northpark? What are people saying about Renaissance?"

He said it's an opportunity to ensure incorrect information regarding the city doesn't sweep through the social media networks and go viral, for example.

Note: I've had some time to think about this post. Hart uses the phrase "control conversations". So Gene is pretty much paying someone to cyberstalk and then shut down anything conflicts with his message.

Then there is this tidbit. Wonder who left it?

People who actually have to govern call it 21st public relations and message control. It's a smart move.

From the emails it is clear that Alan Hart was and is Andrew's "support network".

Hello, it's me (11:14 am) again. It's been 3.5 hours, and still no answer. I'm shocked and disappointed.

Come on, people - there are at least 2,400 of you out there in West Ridge-la-la-land who should be able to answer this simple question: what did you think was going to happen on that site?

Please don't tell us you thought the fine folks who owned it were all independently wealthy tree-hugging philanthropists who would happily just sit on this *cough* beautiful I-55 pastureland and pass it on to future generations? Most of you have MDs, JDs, or at least have wives whose family is rich - surely you aren't that naive.

Let's hear some of these great ideas. I'll hang up and listen.

The taxpayers of Ridgeland chipping in $30 million to build a COSTCO is ridiculous. Furthermore, what is really shady is how MDA and the Guv are completely ignoring MDA's regulations to allow the $30 million in the first place.

11:14 am. The property in question was zoned C-2, which is exactly what you currently see up and down Highland Colony Parkway. That is why there are no gas stations and no fast food drive ins. We never assumed that the property would remain green space but nor did we have any reason to suspect that the mayor would suddenly abandon both the RAMP and the 2014 City of Ridgeland Zoning Ordinance, enabling both gas stations and fast food drive ins and all night bars to locate at the property in question. We are also extremely concerned with the tactics used to change that zoning. Spot zoning is illegal so they used some very underhanded tactics to circumvent that restriction, hence the law suit asking that a judge rule as to whether or not their new zoning is legitimate. We are not asking for any special favors or exceptions or courtesies or consideration from the city or any one else for that matter. All we are asking is that the City honor their own rules; the same rules that every one else is required to follow.

3:11 have you been napping?? All of this has been addressed. You have to read the thread. We are not going back to square one with you. Keep up now.

6:28, it was NOT spot zoning. It was not underhanded. Though legal notice was published prior to the first zoning meeting, the City did a repeat. But "you" (meaning your group filing the lawsuit) are using underhanded and threatening tactics with your own neighbors, and you do expect all of these special things that you deny, as you see yourselves not having to follow the same rules that apply to everyone else. Pot / Kettle.

6:28 what rules specifically where not followed by those supporting the law suit as a means of resolving this dispute?

I can't be sure but I think the previous post was supposed to be directed at 10:02 and I like the question. "Specifically, what rules were not followed by those supporting the law suit as a means to resolve the dispute? " Can we get some legitimate facts here, please? The name calling is really not constructive.

I would also like to know what underhanded and threatening tactics have been used. Anybody have some specifics regarding that accusation?

4/12 6:28: I still see no suggestions in your (or anyone else's) comment on what SHOULD go on that site. You did offer the idea that it should be "the same as everything else"... Got it. No new stuff. Maybe y'all could change the Ridgeland motto to "Give Me Status Quo or Give Me Death". That's what all the great places to live strive for, right?

All-night bars? Give me a break. Now you're stretching. You do know the same people who built Renaissance are the ones proposing this, don't you? Do all those all-night bars in that mall bother you?

So it really boils down to this - if there were no gas station, you'd be fine with Costco. Is that correct?

I'm not expecting an answer, so I feel the need to make two points.

1. I lived in Atlanta for 10 years and saw first hand that cities (especially suburbs of metropolitan areas) are living organisms. They are always moving in one direction or another. They are either active, growing, getting better, or they are slowly losing their tax base, losing retail, office buildings are being vacated... in other words, getting worse. Look around at other communities, and I think you will see the truth in this. You either create an environment that people want to live in (and move into), or you die a slow death. Think about that before you advocate the killing off of new development. Look up Brookhaven, GA outside of Atlanta if you want to see what they did with a Costco. It's awesome. Y'all should put effort into doing something like that town center instead of fighting it.

2. If you (not you personally, but everyone on that side of the fight) are successful in killing the Costco deal... congrats. But then what? Who is on the list of people/corporations who would still be willing to buy that land next to those neighbors and actually do something with it? There are companies out there, but it's a relatively short list. Are you guaranteed to be happy with that result? But don't think about it too long. You'll have a Dollar General in your front yard before you can say "Pottery Barn". I've seen it happen.

I'm going to play devil's advocate. Suppose the deal falls through. Now Mr. Mattiace is a little more desperate. Walmart comes through for him and moves to that site. However, Walmart also lets it store on County Line Road sit vacant as it is already doing with the former Sam's location. It ties up the competition while securing a monopoly in Madison County.

As far as the direction of Walmart locations go the Ridgeland store on Wheatley is considered a dump and likely will not be replaced geographically when they eventually shutter it. With a new Walmart in Canton, one in Madison and the rooftop stampede underway to exit Jackson, it is doubtful they will build a new store in Ridgeland. No true competitor of Walmart, and there are few, would move into the Wheatley building. The building wouldn't be mothballed for the same reasons that the former Sam's has been.

11:57 has it right. As does KF as the devil's advocate. However, Walmart would be a completely new and typical Walmart deal not involving current developers. There go the pretty flowers and buffers. Sorry, neighbors.