Jackson Jambalaya

I will now buy gas exclusively at Rick's Chevron.

It's fortunate that no one was hurt and the child was able to get out of the car. I won't criticize the owner for not drawing his weapon, but I will point out that simply carrying a weapon and putting ones hand on it during the commission of this crime was insufficient to deter "homeboy."

I make this point for all the tough-guy keyboard jockeys who will read this and then will claim what they'd have done under the same circumstances. You can carry, you may even have a permit, but you'd better be ready to present your weapon, be committed to using it, (if necessary) when you do, and be prepared for the consequences, because the criminal will not be impressed when you just put your hand on it.

Now, have at it virtual John Waynes.

So she was pumping gas when this occurred? Was the engine running or in ACC mode? This had to be traumatizing for the child. Seems like the original intent may have been a purse snatching, but the perp saw the bigger opportunity.

If you are in Jackson or anywhere else in the metro, consider your surroundings. I was at the Shell on Beasley / Frontage and was nearly a victim of a similar type of MO. As I started pumping gas a female came up to distract me (solicitation of a sexual act) and another car pulled up beside me. They attempted to access my passenger door, but the door was locked so they weren't successful.

8:49, you are correct about the use of the weapon although if the child was still in the car, would it have been justified at that point? Honest question for the lawyers.

NEVER EVER leave your keys in your car. I won't even do that in my own driveway.

There are some experts whose advice I'd carefully consider. The anonymous know-it-all @ 8:49 AM isn't one of them.

8:49,

Speaking of "tough-guy keyboard jockeys", I notice you don't have a name.

The owner used good judgment in not drawing his weapon. However, if the child was still in the car, then blow the thug's head off. i

Kingfish did Rick state if this guy seemed like a homeless person / drugged out of his mind or something? Or did you get into his thought process about drawing his weapon?

It seems to me like Rick was faced with a difficult decision. Like many people have said, you don't know what you will do until you are faced to face with the situation. And if you draw, you better shoot to finish.

Personally, it would have been difficult for me to draw weapon with the child around--out of fear of hitting child, because the subject did not have a weapon, but also because I am unsure of what is more traumatizing---the incident that occurred, or one in which a 10 year old has to witness me shooting and killing someone to stop the car from being hijacked.

Just my thoughts.

Everybody is missing the point. Nobody knows if the guy had a weapon or not. It is not simple car theft if THE CHILD WAS IN THE CAR. If the child would not have been in the car, it would have been car theft. I realize the owner of the gas station wants to say it was car theft and not a carjacking because he doesn't want it known that there was a carjacking at his business. But the kid was inside the car when the dude crawled inside to steal it. That's carjacking. Assuming he had no weapon for a second. There is a difference between armed carjacking and carjacking. Attempted kidnapping at the least. If an unarmed thug gets inside your car and your elderly mother is in the backseat. That's car theft? No.

... because the subject did not have a weapon ...

You don't know that. All that has been reported is that the thug didn't brandish a weapon.

KF, with these circumstances, I think there's a legally sound argument that someone shooting in the defense of others could claim to have been stopping a kidnapping/attempted kidnapping, even though the child was escaping (and did escape) from the backseat. However, that also means the child was within a few feet of "homeboy" and, therefore, would have to be a consideration when choosing whether to shoot or not to shoot.

I give "Rick" the benefit of the doubt here, but still emphasize to readers that they cannot assume that carrying a weapon and putting your hand on it will stop a crime. If you carry, you must be prepared to use your weapon if you are carrying to protect yourself or others. (You must also be smart enough not to use it if you have mitigating circumstances like bystanders.)

I'll add that the jurisdiction would go a long way in my determination on whether to shoot or not to shoot.

Have you spoken to the child or the woman regarding threats? Does the video have audio? Why would the child leave the car unless the child was threatened in some way. Still sounds like car jacking or attempted kidnapping. Any legal folks have an opinion.

9:18,

It is you who misses. The vehicle doesn't have to be occupied for a carjacking. Nor does an occupied vehicle automatically imply carjacking. Carjacking is simply taking a vehicle through intimidation, direct threat, force or violence.

JJ. You do realize whose wife and child were the victims here. It would greatly behoove the JPD's public image to correctly classify this carjacking and attempted kidnapping. Not that it should matter who the victims are. But in this unfortunate world it does.

Well, the newspaper could report this story too, but it won't.

Rick needs to leave his gun at home before someone takes it away from him and uses it on someone.

9:16,

A child's life holds no more value than anyone else. If a threat is high enough that it requires drawing and using a deadly weapon, it's on you to employ that weapon responsibly.

Now, in reality, we somehow invoke the "for the children" rule in just about everything. You do have to live with yourself if you do assume the responsibility of acting to defend someone with a deadly weapon. I could not forgive myself if I acted irresponsibly and killed an innocent. I might could survive if I killed an innocent knowing I was doing everything "right" and attempting to save their or someone elses life. But I also couldn't live with myself if someone died at the hands of another and I had a clear ability to utilize a deadly weapon to remove that threat before they could do harm.

"Perception of Crime"

Professional journalists have ethics and standards.

You are a blogger. Anyone can be a blogger.

You are a ______. Anyone can be a _______.

Some of the comments here are bizarre. Was the victim pumping gas? Was the child in the car? Was the engine running? Do people even read what KF reported???? It's not the gas station owners car. Shooting the guy brings on a whole set of problems he probably didn't want.

Professional journalists have ethics and standards.

Does it take a license to be a professional journalist? Is there a test that must be passed?

ANYONE can be a "professional journalist". Anyone.

who was it?

See this KF?

I'll say it again. This is by definition a carjacking. The means of stealth, sudden action, force, and violence are all met under MS Code. Injury, also as a result of force, fear and flight of the attempted kidnapping victim, as well as all the other elements of the other crimes which he should be charged with are met.

The carjacking statutes are similar to other robbery statutes. In cases where a "weapon" is displayed or discovered or implied, the armed charge is placed. The statutes are clear. The precedents are clear. In this case, the alleged position of JPD (given, however, that the initial incident reports are just being filed and spokesperson does not represent the DA) in stating that this is NOT a carjacking is unbelievable.

No requirement for a “threat” statement or note. When someone does pretend a gun is in their pocket, they ARE charged with armed robbery. And on the other hand, we don’t not charge them with robbery because they are standing there mute with a bag out at the bank. It ain't Halloween. This is NOT a misappropriation, larceny, or simple theft.


Auto theft is NOT carjacking. Review the statutes nationwide. Since twits in the JPD cannot read the MS Statute, here's a snippet of CA Penal Code for perspective because it's laid out so purty:
CPC § 215 defines carjacking as:

A felony
A crime that involves taking a motor vehicle away from someone's immediate presence
A crime that is committed against the driver/passenger's will
A crime committed with the intent to permanently deprive the owner of their vehicle
A crime accomplished by means of force or fear

Anyone who is arrested, charged and convicted of carjacking can be sentenced to a state prison term of three to nine years (this is Cali, not MS). In some instances, carjacking can be charged as robbery, since robbery similarly is felonious taking of someone from the immediate presence of a person. However, a person cannot be charged with robbery and carjacking for the same offense.

Grand theft is defined in § 487 of the CPC. This statute defines grand theft as:

A felony
A crime that involves taking a person's real property
Real property taken must exceed $950
A crime that is committed against the vehicle owner's will

See: 5 elements vs 4. Presence. Fear OR Force. Our statute includes stealth and sudden action, as this is a typical carjack by strongarm.

MS Code is similar, but delineates multiple elements of means, all met. All met, not just the minimum one. Force, resulting in injury. Would his head being split open been just a call to Richard Schwartz? He's NOT going to be charged with agg vs simple, or with an enhanced- death/serious bodily injury.

Fear, the child screaming and fleeing. The mother's obvious fear. The owner's actions to resist. Stealth in sliding in the passenger seat. Then sudden action to move, despite actions by the Mom and employee. Then driving off, with injury and potential death, from dragging a person. It ain't auto theft. It ain't an attempt. And, there was injury, it turns out.

Note, there is NO element requiring "intent to cause serious bodily harm or death." But if there were, the guy being dragged is pretty good stuff, eh? Note that there is no requirement of a “threat” or display of a weapon of any type.


The gas station guy didn't just slip on a wet floor running to call 911; he was in a violent confrontation. But if he had slipped and hit his head and died, would be forgetting that??? This didn't happen when the Mom was in Kroger alone, or the car was warming up in the driveway. There was a kid IN the car. The guy would be charged with attempted carjacking even if he had gotten out (in most states, I guess).

The idea that someone has to get shot, their head has to be split open with a baton on video, or that the kid has to be driven off with before one defines this as a carjacking is ludicrous.

I'll wipe the spittle off now and get back to work.

@10:39

You sound like you're well versed in the laws of California, but as you may know, Mississippi is one of the last states that has not adopted the model penal code. It's tricky to compare other states' criminal statutes to ours due to the distinction. The "stealthy seizure" component has to be paired with "force or violence." I don't see anything about the perp using force or violence in this case.

Just going by what I have read about this incident on this site, it sounds like the guy slid into the passenger seat, then the kid in the back seat jumped out, then the perp jumped out and went around to the driver's side and got into the (now empty) vehicle and drove away. That's auto theft. The gas station owner's resistance may factor in and turn it into carjacking, though. I would be interested to read the court opinion on this one, assuming we manage to actually prosecute someone for once.

It is saddening and unfortunately not shocking that the spokepeople of the JPD and the mayor's office have to my knowledge not reached out to this family. Dumb move. You would thing they would want a good relationship with the media. If rumors are true, the family involved are good, unassuming and solid people who chose to make Jackson their home, and have been committed to working on making Jackson better. Yarber and Vance ought to be moving heaven and earth for folks like this.

11:08

The guy entered car via front passenger seat, then slid into driver's seat. The child was in the back seat and by some miracle had the wisdom to exit the car before perp drove off. If not for the child's remarkable quick thinking, a very different scenario would have played out. We have no way to know what transpired between the perp and the child in that car. There were many cars he could have chosen, he chia a car w a child in it. God bless that kid. The kid is a hero. The gas station guy helped, but he is as interested in downplaying the severity of this crime as the JPD. He has a business to think of.

Guys like Homeboy have been stealing trucks in Maywood Mart for years.

Seems they just moved over a few yards now.

If you see young black males wandering aimlessly....grab all you own and pay attention.

Look, we'll have to agree and disagree. It's carjacking. Look quick at Peeps vs Coryell CA. I can't spend all day looking for a MS case. Cali case is similar, but, yeah it's Cali and a penal code. That's true.

But the years have passed and nowhere is one able to beat carjacking in any Circuit by saying, "Well, Rick only got hurt a little, and I didn't see no gun, so-auto theft." That's a joke. Not that HCDA wouldn't plea down and Muffy would never let her 10 yoa daughter testify.

"Carjacking is not necessarily "confined to those cases where the perpetrator uses force or fear ' in order to gain possession of the vehicle.' " NOTE: How much broader the MS Code is on this.

"Third, the required element of force and fear obviates the concern that a defendant could be found guilty of the offense merely by watching the defendant drive the vehicle away." See Rick. See girl. See Mom. See dragging. See flight. See scream. See defendant move from passenger to driver. See car placed in gear and accelerator pushed. Fear?

F equals MV square over 2. Force equals 3000 pounds x 15 mph squared over 2 = 61145.6 Newtons. Enough force to kill Rick? A bullet is 2000 Newtons. Any force used in the crime on old Rick? 30 times more than a bullet isn't good enough?

http://www.therecorder.com/id=900005583737/People-v-Coryell#ixzz40df1eSxW

What is force and fear: People vs Vasquez (and ad nauseum) "Court's response: There is no formal legal definition of the term force and fear. You should rely on the common, ordinary meaning of those terms. The element of fear means that the victim was afraid of injury to himself." Think that's met here? I think about 3 or more people surely were afraid, especially that little girl and her Mom.

Force or fear must be used against the victim to gain possession of the vehicle. The timing, however, "in no way depends on whether the confrontation and use of force or fear occurs before, while, or after the defendant initially takes possession of the vehicle." (People v. O'Neil (1997) 56 Cal.App.4th 1126, 1133 [66 Cal.Rptr.2d 72].) This is about where the perp does not relinquish the car when confronted by Rick and Mom. You can't hold up a bank and say, Well I changed my mind. My bad.

BLUF: The California Supreme Court cases also caution us not to follow in lockstep with the interpretation of the robbery and larceny statutes when interpreting the carjacking statute.

I reckon the Mississippi Supremes would sort of go through a similar process, including a caution about getting anal retentive and having gas station owners with guns say, "Well, this is hurting business and it's no BFD" after the fact.

Fauntleroy should lie and assert he was just going to snatch the purse and got stuck in the car when Big Ole Mean Ole Rick was a fixin' to whoop his ass, so he drove off a 100 yards to escape, And he forgot to stop. Trying to show he had not formed intent to permanently deprive and commit offense. Won't work, but, hey. He's "gotta" have a defense, right?

This crime took place mere yards away from the LeFleur East clubhouse. LeFleur East is not a safe place to be.

The bottom line here is to always watch your surroundings. PERIOD! Do you think the folks at prayer meeting in SC had any idea of what was about to happen? We're living in some crazy times folks! Stay vigilant!

12:12 ... If you see "skrungy" looking white males walking around aimlessly, grab your purse, lock your doors, blah, blah blah! Same shyyy$, different color!

http://law.justia.com/codes/mississippi/2013/title-97/chapter-3/section-97-3-117

http://kidnapping.uslegal.com/state-kidnapping-abduction-laws/mississippi-kidnappingabduction-laws/

1:11

There are currently not any white males targeting black females for crime in the City. Our current problem is black males specifically targeting white females.

However, if they keep it up, the tables could quickly turn.

A serious question for a judge, attorney, law professor or someone else that is qualified to interpret the statues...(NO sh*t comments from the peanut gallery, PLEASE)
Given the events happened just as described and "Rick" had shot the "car thief," would he ("Rick") be facing any charges? I think we all need to know the correct answer to this so as to know how far to go if a similar event should to us.

1:36 ... When did I reference females? By race even? KF recently had a post about a "white" male on the loose in south Jackson. Don't get it twisted, "White" folks will rob your azz too! And take government land, have shootouts at restaurants, and other crazy shyy$ as well, I might add.

18 U.S.C. § 2119: THE CARJACKING STATUTE
1. The Legislative History of 18 U.S.C. § 2119 In September 1992, two assailants stole a car belonging to a Maryland woman named Paula Basu. The men forced her from the vehicle and sped away. Desperate in the realization that her infant daughter was still in the car, Ms. Basu clung to the door and was dragged to her death. In the wake of this tragic event and the subsequent public outrage, Congress passed the Anti Car Theft Act of 1992, codified as 18 U.S.C. § 2119.

While this is USC, it informs the various statutes, including Miss.
While the Fed law has since been modified to include "intent to..harm" (that has been clearly decided in Holloway as to conditional intent), the Congress eliminated a firearms possession. The Holloway case is quite interesting in plumbing the history and intent.

The carjacking statutes all go back to this very similar case, with, in our case luckily, Rick NOT being dragged to death. And all those state statutes followed and have been upheld.

If Rick or the Mom had been killed, no one would argue that this was not carjacking and murder. If the girl had not gotten out, no one would argue against kidnapping. So, when Rick's slightly injured but dragged, this is somehow auto theft? Does not follow.


On September 8, 1992, Pamela Basu, a research chemist, was taking her 22-month-old daughter, Sarina, to her first day of nursery school. After putting Sarina into
the car seat in her BMW automobile, Mrs. Basu drove a block from her suburban Maryland home and stopped at a stop sign. At that point, two men who had run out of gas at a nearby rest stop on Interstate 95 approached Mrs. Basu’s car, pulled her from the car and beat her, then jumped into the car and began to drive off.

Tragically, as the car sped off, Mrs. Basu – who was still entangled in the seat belt – lost her balance while reaching for her child. She was dragged along the road for over a mile until, in an apparent attempt by the driver to dislodge her from the car along a farm fence, her body became wrapped in the barb wire fencing, detached from the car and came to rest on the road.

Shortly thereafter, the driver stopped the car and tossed the car seat, with the child still in it, to the side of the road. The car then sped off.

But later that day, the police stopped the car along a country road and arrested the two occupants, who attempted to flee on foot. The suspects – Rodney Eugene Solomon, 26, and Bernard Eric Miller, 16 – were indicted for murder, kidnapping and other crimes.

correct. There is a white convict from georgia loose. However, there are not gangs of young white males targeting black women. There ARE NUMEROUS gangs of young black males targeting white women.

I really wish the black community would worry more about the problems inside their own community. We would all be safer if they were able to do that.

2:15, you know you are a racist just by suggesting that a black person would commit a crime.

why does everyone care whether it was carjacking or theft. we know the facts so who cares what it gets classified as? its crazy when people who live 5 miles away bash Jackson. "I don't live in Jackson its not safe, so I live 10 minutes up the interstate" If you want to bash Jackson move completely out of MS and then say what you want.

1:11 I know you want to believe what you said, but statistically, you're way off base.

Folks, it is what it is. There are all kinds of crimes being committed by all types of people. Whether it be teachers and coaches entrusted to nurture and teach our kids but end up sexually assaulting them, (these assilants are usually white, just saying), or knuckleheads (thugs) shooting our elders while they work in their front yards.
Sexual assaults - pretty white female teacher.
Shootings/carjackings - Nae Nae and Dem

It is what it is. So what do we do about it? I know, bash each other on social media!

NOT

at 3:08 pm - it is for political and economic reasons. Car theft is a more palatable and a lesser crime. Crime statistics are used by politicians and business owners alike to pat themselves on the back. Classifying what is clearly a carjacking and arguably an attempted kidnapping as a simple car theft is a misrepresentation of what happened and an affront to the horror the victims experienced. An accurate and unbiased reporting of crime is essential to helping our community be safe and become a better place.

Police, Politicians and city leaders are lauded for a reduction in crime. Maybe it is just a reduction in the accuracy/veracity of crime reports/classifications.

The business owner obviously does not want his business known as the carjack/attempted kidnapping chevron. That would hurt his pocketbook. Car theft chevron is more marketable and a lot less threatening.

@4:08....thank you for your insightful response.

Yes, Pump #4 faces Northside but it still is their inner island. The thug had to be nearby laying in wait for the right chance to victimize someone.

@2:15. Good lort. Land the plane. If your comment is over three sentences, start your own blog. No one wants to read your blabber

Carjacking is classified and reported as a violent crime.

Car theft is classified and reported as a property crime.

Check out the JPD website that provides crime statistics.

Is violent crime really trending down, or is there a trend to misclassify crimes such as this one to crate the illusion violent crime is down?

Why would "Rick" feel the need to indicate to the homeboy that "Rick" was armed, if "Rick" really agrees with JPD this was a simple car theft?

Perhaps because "Rick" is a business owner, and he does not want his business associated with a violent crime.

We can not fix a problem we are unwilling to properly identify.

The potholes are a symptom of a much larger issue.

7:43, you are right. Creative classification of crimes is just one way Jackson keeps the true crime figures from the people. They do have a couple more that change the stats even more.
The potholes along with the sewer problems, water dept. problems, crooked cops, get rich quick leaders, and black only everything are some more symptoms of a much larger issue.
Don't look for that to change until the people in Jackson decide they want a change.

9:39 if you truly think that Jackson is the only city that keeps the 'true crime figures from the people' by the way they report the statistics, let me see if I can sell you a double-wide in Pearl to replace the Airstream you are currently living in.

Not defending all of the incompetence in administration of Jackson, but a lot of the specifics you itemize can also apply to other governments of the metro area. You don't believe that the BOS in Madison has been involved in 'get rich quick leaders' until recently? You think that crooked cops don't exist north of County Line?

Metro areas everywhere face these problems - and now the Jackson metro area (Hinds/Rankin/Madison) are approaching the population of the Birmingham, Mobile, Little Rock and soon the Atlantas, Memphis, NOLA etc areas.

Have any of you blowhards made an effort to check on the family involved in this incident? If they are who I think they are, they are relatively new to the area though have deep ties to Jackson and moved to Jackson from out of state to work on solving some of the issues folks here are just typing about. They are good, educated and kind folk. Extend a hand and show them the hospitality we are known for. I did.

3:44 ..."Folks, it is what it is"


You're trying to suggest the 2-3 occurrences a YEAR of a white coach, or teacher, (non-violent) incident equals 5 or 6 DAILY INCIDENCES of car-jacking, rape, robbery, and murder? DAILY

Regarding classification of crime - looks like a car theft does qualify victims to use any victim assistance funds/programs, whereas a carjacking/attempted kidnapping does.

Corrections - Car theft DOES NOT

Car theft DOES NOT, carjacking/attempted kidnapping DOES.

Any updates?

Is the assailant still on the loose?

Has the vehicle been recovered?

Any more "car thefts" in the area?

How are the victims doing?

Any updates? Of course not.
Is the assailant still on the loose? Of course he is.
Has the vehicle been recovered? Of course not.
Any more "car thefts" in the area? Everyday (multiple stolen from Highland Village within the last week).
How are the victims doing? Shaken. More aware.

More "car thefts" or more carjackings/attempted kidnappings classified as "car thefts" for political and economic reasons?

Any idea about how JPD's investigation is going?

Please do elaborate 1:38 - Any more "car thefts" in the area? Everyday (multiple stolen from Highland Village within the last week).You must be the same guy claiming your car was stolen in Ridgeland. There have not been multiple cars stolen. Good grief.

@3:47
Are you trying to say that no cars have been stolen from Highland Village in the last week? Because my wife's car was stolen from there a week ago today. Does hers not count?

1:03, Chevron or other?

Not Chevron. Highland Village, although it was parked a couple hundred yards from Chevron. Whats the difference at that point?

Was the car occupied during the "theft", like the not a carjacking that took place at the chevron?

Anyone heard anything from JPD on either of these cases?

Is Highland Village stepping up its security, or just its rents?

Did the non chevron auto theft happen at night too?

Any similarities in these cases?

Broad daylight, middle of the afternoon. Car was not occupied.

Any updates?

Is there anyway to access "unbiased" crime statistics on a daily basis?

So last Tuesday, there was at least one car theft and one car jacking more or less in the same parking lot within 5 hours?

Any statement from the precinct four folks on what they are doing to keep us safe and to find the person(s) responsible?

I think I need a cold glass of filtered water.

If the buzz around town is true, not single public official or civic leader has contacted this family. They are good, quiet and unassuming people who because of who they are any smart or savvy politician you would think would be knocking themselves out to make this family feel safe. This family though relatively new to the area has deep roots here, made a conscious choice to live in Jackson proper and have been big behind the scenes cheerleaders of all good things Jackson. Shame on Yarber, Foote and Vance. Jeff Good too.

Any process on this case? Is the carjacker still on the loose?