Jackson Jambalaya

The economic theory of a defined benefit plan failed decades ago, yet governments are still using them. One day, these plans will fail. No form of math supports allowing people to work 25 years, retire at 52, and draw retirement for 30 years. It's time this end. And why is there a 13th check when the plan is grossly underfunded?

The Legislature can't address PERS politically without opening the SLRP can of worms. Odds are they'd rather take their chances playing Russian roulette.

Bobby Moak weighs about the same as Tate. Chubby knows no party affiliation.

the dow jones indy ave is up approx 12% ytd. Other indices are up more. WHO HANDLES THESE INVESTMENTS AND HOW MUCH ARE THEY CHARGING. We current and past state employees need to know.This has the appearance of some type of conspiracy and/or kickbacks (campaign contributions). Surely someone out there knows how to access these figures.

Attn 10:42 Apparently you haven't seen Moak lately!

@10:15 It's my understanding that new state hires have to work 30 years. It's already being killed slowly. Get the math straight to fund those already in the system, and allow the rest of the State employees to keep their contribution and put it toward traditional retirement investment vehicles.

Doubt that 10:42.

You sure about that 12%? The investment period for pers is July 1-June 30.

I'm not sure who they're trying to fool here.

I work with lots of PERS employees on a near-daily basis. They all want straight talk on this. Literally every single one under 50 says something like, "I'm okay with higher contributions or even later retirement, if I can just get some certainty on what I'll be getting."

FOLLOW THE MONEY !!!!!

FOLLOW THE MONEY !!!!!

FOLLOW THE MONEY !!!!!

I say that three times so you dumb asses can figure this out.

I thought Robertson explained that as long as they can lay the monthly note everything is fine? You know, like your car note or something.

PERS will not release their actual money management fees.

ONE MORE TIME.


FOLLOW THE MONEY !!!!!

Attn 11:12 How can PERS refuse to release fee totals when this money is in fact the property of the participants? Once again where is the "freedom of information". There are without a doubt somethings being hidden here.

The Legislature just doesn't get it. I talked to one of the smartest members of the Senate about it one time and they genuinely believed that the changes made a few years ago were sufficient. The smart ones MAY start to get it if the PERS board decides to deal forthrightly and drop the Assumed Rate to a more realistic number.

Most of them don't but I've talked to probably half a dozen who do.

Highway Patrol.

Why is an obese white guy the public face of the Donkey Party in Mississippi?

One could just liquidate the PERS fund and divide the proceeds amoung the members
based on contributions while starting another 401k style plan in it's place. The problem
would be that the competent State employees would leave for greener pastures.

Kingfish is wrong about one thing. The 'problems' did NOT begin in 1999. Not saying no new ones emerged that year, but the problems started much earlier. Back in the eighties, those who make decisions decided it would be fine to let people retire at 25 years instead of 30 and actually paid them bonuses to do so. That killed two hogs with one acorn. It removed people from the system, paid them retirement and stopped their contributions.

Then back when they tweaked the retirement options and made it easier to retire and cover a spouse for life, that squeezed the tit a little tighter. Some retirees and survivors are now drawing three to five times (over a lifetime) what was the annual salary of the retiree with an insignificant reduction in the amount drawn if you choose this option.

Ever change seems to have been made with the 'best case scenario' (including pipe dreams) in mind.

"And why is there a 13th check when the plan is grossly underfunded?"

Because it's considered a legal contract entered into decades ago?

1:26: Not disagreeing with you.

My personal favorite was Justice retiring from MC and then coaching for full salary at Alabama while drawing a full retirement check.

PERS should be abolished. Pay out what they have paid in back to the workers and tell them to take risk like everyone else out there who actually works for a living.

The private schools in Mississippi Kingfish are full of public school sports coach retirees.

It will suck on the front-end, but we need to get the Federal regs changed and put state employees (at least new hires) in a 403(b).

PERS has a serious problem, but no politician will touch it with a ten foot pole. Everyone discusses one sided reforms on the side of the employees...the problem is damn management of this system. PERS is a giant piñata for management firms, politicians and the jug-headed hanger-on morons that inundate this state with their BS schemes...now the evidence...back in the spring the bond market was crumbling away from all time highs...who would buy that...the management firms for PERS who know that we are asleep and the wheel and will buy whatever crap product they are selling...Japanese bonds...negative interest rates... Oh, but have to keep the Japanese happy or buh-bye Toyota. Oh, but we have the bright spot of private equity...can you say Bernie Madoff? Try diggin into where those PE investments are going for PERS...right into a black hole Ponzi scheme. But it's all good as long as the PERs yo-yo's get to be wined and dined and the politicians get their contributions from the mgmt firms...so ultimately who gives a rip about the employees because the game must go on.

If Gov. Feel Mr. Speaker and Lt. Tater were packing anything in their boxers they could ram something thru the house and senate and fix this. Who knows? Maybe they are wearing panties.

just invest the thing in a Vanguard index fund and let the state treasurer manage the operation. I was curious why KF did not raise the issue of PERS costs rising yearly.

There is this little issue of legally owing the money....when you go to work in the morning you expect your employer to stand behind whatever deal he made with you. When that bond is broken, the whole system falls apart.

Bernie got 25 years because he was "supposed to know". Somebody ought to bring charges against the legislature because every year that PERS becomes more underfunded, the legs are spending the money on their pet projects instead.

@ 3:03. It should be funded higher. BUT, the PERS Board is the one who makes the funding recommendation/request to the Legislature. The Legislature has funded it per their request. They aren't shorting the request to pay for a Fish Park in Wayne County. They're funding the PERS request and issuing bonds for the Fish Park. If you were trying to make criminal charges, you'd have to go after the advisors and Pat Robertson (PERS Director).

Looks and smells like a 3-card Monte card game to me. These money managers are raping the employees and legal discovery is in order, and hopefully these managers gets sued and thrown in jail...

3:00 PM: I can only put so much into one post. There is quite a bit of info in this one.

In 13 years of service as a teacher, my wife has an account balance of around $50k. Assuming she does the last 12 years and retires, it is reasonable to assume that she will have around $100k or so. She can then retire and draw a nice retirement with her income based on here last x years of average pay. This math simply doesn't work, even if they did a decent job investing. She stands to draw WAY more than she invested even with gains...

@ 4:30 is right. It would really take more like 45 years to even get close to making the numbers work.

@4:30

50k for 13 years of service meant your wife was putting around $320 a month into her PERS account. With annually compounded interest and an 8% interest rate, your wife's contribution alone should be worth about $300k (were that pushed out to 30 years, it would be worth almost $500k).

If she were to receive 25k a year (my guess as to what half a teacher's salary might be) it would take her 12 years to go through that (20 on the 30 year plan). But the math is a little more complicated than that because you don't take your entire retirement at once, and theoretically the account should continue to grow after retirement.

The question is, why isn't PERS getting an 8% or better return, and how much are they paying in fees to manage the plan. 30 years x 10% interest x yearly compounded interest would yield nearly $700k for your wife (or at the very least 30 years of retirement). Under that calculation, PERS would be fine since the average lifespan is around 78.

So it's possible she doesn't stand to draw "WAY more" because compounded interest is a thing.

It's a damn shame that we have such poor representation in the legislature. Nothing gets done because those that should be getting ahead of this problem are either too stupid to understand the issue or too cowardly to do anything about it.

Bet they understand how to make the most of their retirement though.

Don't know why anyone, Republican or Democrat, would want more government of any type.

So....What is the problem with Mike Justice, or any other employee, retiring and then going to work somewhere else? It's patently absurd to suggest that a retired state employee (or retiree from any organization or company) should NOT be able to start a new career which might or might not include another retirement down the road.

There are thousands of retirees from the PERS system who worked their ass off for thirty years, retired and went to work somewhere else, again working their asses off, and perhaps, after years, drawing a retirement there as well.

Same is true for millions of military retirees. Even a 'correspondent' could conceivably do it if he had a-mind to.

State employees who "retire" in their 50's usually have to get jobs elsewhere bc the retiree state insurance rates are insanely high and most people can't live on half their salary plus take on the huge cost of retiree insurance premiums.

127, the q3th check was not a guarantee in the hiring contract with state employees. It was,a freebie given to them by the legislature back when 'times were good'. The problem is now -me and thousands of other state retirees love our 13th check and if they tried to take it back we would be raising hell.

9:55; an employee handbook is a contract. Likewise the Public Employees Retirement System handbook that is issued to employees is a contract. Thousands enter employment and plan for retirement based on the guarantees and promises and provisions of those documents and handbooks.

Since the policy of the so called thirteenth check was put into effect, that has been covered in the PERS Handbook (its available on line as well). There are no 'ifs, ands or buts' mentioned in the thirteenth check policy in the documents of the Public Employees Retirement System manuals, documents, promises and contracts. It is therefore a contractual agreement, a promise.

Of course the Legislature can do whatever it likes in addressing the issues. And whatever they do might pass muster without a hitch. Their actions might, though, cause an uproar and significant legal challenges. Then all these bleacher sitters, Monday morning lawyers and sideline prognosticators will have an opportunity to stock up on popcorn.

A lot of good points made on this thread, but Kingfish made a great point in his original post - less people paying in, with way more eligible to retire - the PERS fund is gonna go "pop" soon.

Big picture, the Republicans probably want the damn thing to go belly up to show how state employment is such a heavy burden on the budget and if you privatize services - you can cut cost. But needless to say, people never question who pays for those services once they go to the "private" sector.

The Mississippi GOP's sole aim is to shrink state government and privatize damn near every service you can imagine, assuming a for-profit company can do something better than a non-profit looking out for the general publics own interest.

So anyway, state employment is unattractive as ever because the legislature is doing everything in its power to cut costs - through suppressed wages, cutting benefits, increasing contributions, and increasing tenure time to receive a pension upon years of service.

The Governor has proposed in his FY2018 budget recommendation to remove all state workers from the personnel boards purview, so state agencies can go ahead and terminate whomever at will. So if you are eligible for retirement, now is a good time to try and cash in on what you worked for in the first place.

More people depending on the fund, less people paying in - this will not bode well in the long run.

Ah, yes, an altruistic government agency can do it better because it is looking out for the "general public's own interest". You must also believe in the Tooth Fairy and Easter Bunny.

@ 5:55's Mind: We must expand the pyramid in order to pay for the one's at the top. Government must expand to pay it's debts - never mind the increase in future obligations or future state employees or future taxpayers. I'll be long gone by then. Hey look a can. Whistle>

@ 8:17am

"an altruistic government agency can do it better because it is looking out for the "general public's own interest"

well what does Public Safety have to gain by distributing drivers license as opposed to a private company?

what does Medicaid have to gain to providing healthcare coverage to our most vulnerable citizens as opposed to a private insurance company that answers to stock payers?

what does corrections have to gain financially by housing our criminals?

There are things we should want to be maintained by the public trust and other things we should want coming from the private sector - such as goods and certain services.

Its just that simple.

Is Steve Holland gaining weight?

Who knows? Maybe Wackenhut could patrol the highways. I'm sure they could sit in the median just over that next hill.

We already know Job Service became Win Centers which do virtually nothing to facilitate the movement of workers into jobs. Thirty years ago 'Job Placement' was the name of that game, but now it's only a warehouse for Jackson State Grads punching on their i-Phones, cruising toward retirement benefits.

Yes, prisons can be effectively run by the private sector, Medicaid can be better run by a private insurance company and Electrical contractors across this state could put up traffic lights. Any service or job rendered or done by government that can be done by the private sector should be cut from the state budget.

Yet every state agency has become its own empire and fiefdom. Every one!

One problem is the fact some of the people who retire from state employment go back to work for the state on a part-time basis. They draw from PERS without contributing anything further. Maybe forbid working for the state once retired, and the state could increase contributors into PERS. Trade two part-timers for a full-time contributing employee.

Ah...5:08; In what alternate universe to you think 25k is half a teacher's salary in Mississippi? Or are you thinking about a forty year teacher with masters and specialist degrees teaching special ed in the wealthiest district in the state?

How about stopping MHP retired people from going to work for a Local PD with state retirement ? Being a state employee myself, I have not had a pay raise since June 2006. And the only one before that was May 1998. So 2 in 22 years you do the math. Wait let me do it for you. It comes out to about 15 dollars per month over 22 years.

Don't get caught up in this tit for tat BS - there is no 13th check , it is a cost of living increase that some chose to bank for 12 months and collect at the end of the year. We need to stop the yearly one lump COLA and spread it out over 12 months . Once we have done that let's see what the 401k pundits say about our yearly cost of living adjustment. We also need to look at all these tax cuts for big corps at the expense of our pension system. What elected officials have ties to private pension plans that want to do away with PERS and make a financial killing off the backs of hard working Police , Firefighters , Cops , Sherrifs , City , County and State workers.Ask your self what make a paying a third party a fee to invest your retirement money opposed to just paying PERS to do it. Comes down not letting the little guy get ahead!

I currently work for the State, and would love the chance to opt for a defined-contribution plan. Many of us who leave State employment prior to retirement age will be pulling out lump sum payments to roll over into IRA's, even if it means taking a penalty and losing the employer match. As the State workforce ages, and without the pay increases needed to retain younger workers, it becomes a death spiral for PERS.

Retirees should not be allowed to retire from one agency under PERS and go to work for another under a different PERS and draw 2 retirement checks. MHP is allowed to do this and it is wrong. Benefits should be the same and so should the rules. Do I need to even mention SLRP? Also those that are taking a lump sum payout could leave the money in PERS to be invested-a win win situation for the retiree that can't touch it till 59 1/2 unless they want to give the IRS a third or the retiree that just wants to invest and not spend, PERS could invest it like they do with the savings plan they have and charge a fee.