Wednesday, July 8, 2015

Watch the debate

The South Carolina House of Representatives is currently debating whether to taking down The Flag. Watch the debate at this link.


Anonymous said...

Check out this article from today's Politico website:

Anonymous said...

@ 11:46 Read the comments to that Politico article. Pretty heated.

Anonymous said...

Several SC Reps openly stated that their vote to take down the flag would likely cost them their next election, but they are voting for what they think is right, not what they think will secure another term. I wish our legislators demonstrated the same courage as South Carolina's. Its refreshing to see politicians put duty before self preservation.

Anonymous said...

courage? courage is when you do your duty, not what makes you feel good or a "vote of conscience". A representative is elected to represent the interest of the people they represent. If they no longer feel they can do that they should resign - not make political votes that their constituents must live with after they are gone. When the electorate completely loses faith in those they elect to represent them, do not be surprised when they no longer support the government either. "Votes of conscience" lead to anarchy and dissolution. You can applaud their courage all day - I don't. I see it as dereliction of duty.

Anonymous said...

What if the representative believes that a majority of his constituents want the flag to come down?

Anonymous said...

6:12: It's not always the government's job to represent the will of the majority, thankfully. For instance, if the majority of Mississippians wanted a segregated society it isn't the government's job to make that happen.

Anonymous said...

9:48 contrary to your leftist beliefs, it is the job of an elected representative to represent the majority of his constituents. if he fails to do so, he should be removed from office. According to your philosophy, the tail should wag the dog.

Anonymous said...

It's just so obvious what happens next. The confederate flag will gradually disappear from public places. Our neighboring southern states will take a few subtle but significant steps away from it. More and more businesses will stop selling it. More venues will ban it. It will gradually become to be viewed as a relic important only to a small group of people who revel in being relics, and who love lost causes.

It's almost like it's in Mississippi's DNA to always and forever be the most pigheaded, recalcitrant, self-defeating state in the country. We pass up no opportunity to show the world that we don't care about our image or our economy. We brag about stats showing how religious we are but make a mockery of the tenets of the Christian faith most of us espouse by rejecting love, unity and compassion for our fellow man.

With South Carolina's vote we are even further out on the fringe, and those charged with leading this state appear to be just fine with that. I love my state, but with much sadness and a heavy heart. To those of you who find that piece of cloth so endearing, I wish you could be made to understand its cost. Know that you are making South Carolina and our neighbors very happy. The crappiest house on the block makes yours so much easier to sell.

I'll try not to be too sad. We'll change the flag eventually. But only after the damage has been done, to no one's surprise.

Leave the flag alone said...

We have yet to hear where longwitz and billingsly stand on the flag. The more they avoid it the more I lose respect for both.

Anonymous said...

6:12 and 10:51 pm So both of you think that a representative is to represent the majority opinion in his or her constituency to the detriment of the best interests of city, State or Nation or if that opinion is unsubstantiated by the facts if the majority they represent are uninformed or ignorant on the issue?
You would have them vote the earth is flat and jail scientists if their constituents believed those scientists heretics?
You would have them poll every vote as how else do they know the majority opinion rather than that of the most loudly opinionated? You didn't elect psychics.
I think you should read the oaths of office your representatives take. They have to uphold the Constitution of the State or Nation and not your emotional feelings. And the words " to the best of my ability" are included in oaths of office for a reason as well.
Our Forefathers understood the concept of " the tyranny of the majority" as many of them had been in the religious minorities in their countries of origin.
We are supposed to elect capable and honest people to represent us. We are supposed to have some idea on where they stand beyond platitudes and slogans. And, we can not re-elect them if we are not happy with their representation.
The bottom line is that we are NOT a democracy. We are deliberately a democratic republic. Our forefathers knew both republics and democracies failed from fatal flaws and that informed leadership with vision and balance was needed. They also knew the rule of law was key to protecting rights and preventing chaos.
We are sadly cursed today with uninformed representation. Those who represent us are not bothering to be informed on the issues before them, they are trying to be popular, so they can be re-elected and benefit financially from office.
You , sir or madam, will continue to vote for someone who expresses your feelings best and doesn't like what you don't like, say on immigration, but you won't demand that they specifically tell you what they will do and how they will do it to solve our immigration problem.
And, that's the difference. You think a representative is to represent your feelings, not solve the problems facing your community, State or Nation.

Messick said...

Hey, remember those people killed in that church??



Anonymous said...

5:33 - it you want something to be sad about consider the state of our economy that keeps everyone you are so worried about offending with a piece of cloth, in perpetual poverty - and no that is not something Feel or Tater can affect when we have a President who believes in Mao 5 year plans. We have a society so eaten up with political correctness they will actually propose digging up a grave in a federal cemetery to make someone happy that has no other reason to bitch than someone told them they should be offended. Our biggest problem is apparently PC mental illness.

Anonymous said...

Well, South Carolina lawmakers got it.
They understood that it is in the long term interests of their State to be gentlemen and ladies and not insult a large segment of public with no result other than to cause conflict.
They also weighed the future economic interests of the entire State of South Carolina against sentimental attachment to a symbol of the past.
Those who want to display The Battle Flag on their private property can and will. They are not likely to form friendships with any neighbors of color but that's their choice. If businesses want to sell it or display it, they assume the risks of losing a segment of their market.
It will still be a part of history, despite the " slippery slope into the absurd" people.
Why people choose these days to be deliberately insulting and disrespectful to others and imagine that to be " moral" is not something I ever want to understand. It's stupid as well. You do not change the way people think or what they believe or how they behave by being mean-spirited. You make real change by example and persuasion and treating others with dignity and offering hope and inspiration. Browbeating doesn't work in the long term. Demanding conformity never succeeds in the long term.

Anonymous said...

8:35 - climb off your cross and join the rest us of us sinners.

Anonymous said...

7:01- we now have the "tyranny of the minority" - nothing EVER makes them happy.

Anonymous said...

You can't compare the issue in South Carolina to the issue on the State flag. South Carolina put their flag up in a response to forced integration. The flag of Mississippi has been in place long before any jackass hijacked it. To me I don't see it as a protest of racial issues, but more of a middle finger to the reconstruction era and the big government that has been in place ever since the Civil War. You carpet baggers will never get it, and we are ok with that. I just wish you all weren't such loudmouths.

Messick said...


"Those who want to display The Battle Flag on their private property can and will."

For now...

"neighbors of color"

What color are they? We all have a 'color', otherwise we could not be seen. You know, invisible. That's basic physics, my friend.
If you mean black, just say it. We're adults here (I think). I've seen many a step-side pickup driven by Mexicans displaying the Flag in some fashion.

"Why people choose these days to be deliberately insulting and disrespectful to others..."

Smear and move on.

What is your profession, Sir/Ma'am?

Anonymous said...

"Browbeating doesn't work in the long term. Demanding conformity never succeeds in the long term."

Agreed. So why are you browbeating us, demanding we conform with your worldview?

Anonymous said...

This whole thing is crazy. What's next? Will Virginia shut down the confederate museum in Richmond? Will Obama tear down the confederate memorial in Arlington National Cemetery?

Anonymous said...

10:03 pm You can't interpret a sentence correctly by ignoring the explanatory sentences and subject or did you miss that at school? It's called context.

It should have been obvious that I didn't mean just Blacks or I would have said that. I said " people of color" to include Semites and those with more pigmentation than Caucasians .

You seem not to know that the Klan didn't just kill or hate Blacks. They had a long list of those they hated and terrorized and murdered...Jews in particular. When Jews and those of darker skin pigmentation ( that make you happy?) and more than a few of us Caucasians see someone flagrantly and inappropriately using The Battle Flag, it is assumed that person is a prejudiced redneck.

Those people who have an original Battle Flag and whose family fought under it ( I'm one of those) don't want it banned from all places but kept in its original historical place. We have no desire to have it become a political symbol of conflict again and be further dishonored. And, my family cringed seeing it on top a car in a television program stereotyping Southerners in a negative manner.

We cringe when some of you help further the stereotype of the uneducated, prejudiced, cantankerous Southerner with a chip on their shoulder. Every time a person hears our drawl or we say we are from Mississippi we have to overcome the assumption we are cross burners!

I despise those who have hijacked it and who are trying to do so again. It has made it harder for those of us who have functioned professionally in an international setting.

I think it a negative to celebrate being a redneck and being proud to be a redneck is something I don't understand or want to understand. It's like celebrating being hip-hop baggy panted thug in the Black community as far as I'm concerned. I don't want our Nation's children to celebrate ignorance, mistake rudeness for wit, and scorn etiquette no matter what their race but that seems to be what is happening.

We should want our children to grow up to be the best they can be , learn as much as they can, and have good manners. We should want them to be ladies and gentlemen, not Neanderthals.

Those of you over-reacting are making it impossible for the rest of us to have a rational dialogue and rational approach to keeping the history of The Civil War and it's relics properly preserved.

The good people of Charleston, both Black and White have tried desperately to keep this civil and rational but the crazy assholes of both races just have to make that impossible.

And, I would suggest that the Mississippi Magnolia flag would be a better example of a flag BEFORE the hijacking!

I am certainly not without sin . My feelings about those of you using the flag to stir up trouble are hardly Christian. But, my ethical base is The Golden Rule . I do not indulge in situational ethics or think the end justifies the means.

So I will certainly stand up to the assholes making this harder in MY race!

Anonymous said...

10:03am and 4:17 am I am responding to your browbeating and chest thumping and fear mongering.

Since people can and do display the Nazi flag and other symbols of Nazism. The Supreme Court has already spoken on this issue. I'm just stating a fact and for you to suggest The Battle Flag will be banned for private use is either ignorance or deliberate fear mongering.

I'm going to assume ignorance since you don't seem to know that explanatory sentences and subject are called context. You have taken a sentence out of context. I would also remind you that the KKK killed and murdered Jews.

I don't have a " world view". Those who do are ideologues. Since NO ideology has ever been perfectly executed and never will be, I find ideologues to be dangerous in their narrow thinking, arrogance and naiveté.

Messick said...


When they're done scrubbing the Confederacy from all public memory, guess what's next?

There will be no visible American history within the public sphere that took place before the late 1960s.

Anonymous said...

Hmmm...if it had been a Black or Muslim young person going into a white church , I wonder how many in your church would have called for peace and forgiveness and put the community ahead of your grief and fear?

Nope, in your church some of you commenting would have been feeding the grief and fear and arguing that this was just a slippery slope of the awful things to come and you might succeed in getting your fellow church members upset.

Your city or town wouldn't be like Charleston and Mississippi wouldn't be like South'd be Ferguson.

Y'all really need to do some soul searching and get control of your negative feelings. Y'all are part of the problem, not the solution.

You are just as bad as the extremists on the other side.

Messick said...

8:42 & 8:58,

1. Not once did I mention the Klan. However, I am aware of their past activities and targets.

2. The term "person/people/neighbor of color" is currently the grossest manifestation of institutional White Guilt in this country. It's a cowardly way of not saying "non-white" in my opinion. I know what you mean, but I object to how you say it. My point was scientific. Strictly speaking, color is not a physical property of material objects (skin, in this case), but is roughly related to the wavelengths of light that they reflect when illuminated by white light. A colorless object would be a completely transparent object and thus, unseen. If you mean that some people have "more pigmentation than Caucasians", perhaps "darker-skinned" would be more appropriate.

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Wrestling returns, except this time it will be a Battle Royal with Othor Cain, Ben Allen, Kim Wade, Haley Fisackerly, Alan Lange, and “Big Cat” Donna Ladd all in the ring at the same time. The Battle Royal will be in a steel cage, no time limit, no referee, and the losers must leave town. Marshand Crisler will be the honorary referee (as it gives him a title without actually having to do anything).

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If you get tired come relax at the Fox News Tent. To gain admittance to the VIP section, bring either your Republican Party ID card or a Rebel Flag. Bringing both will entitle you to free drinks.Get your tickets now. Since this is an event for trolls, no ID is required, just bring the hate. Bring the family, Trollfest '07 is for EVERYONE!!!

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