Sunday, July 12, 2020

Equal Time

Joe Rogan and former SEAL Jocko Willink warned cops would die if chokeholds are banned.  Mr. Willink's thesis is that police officers are poorly trained.  The lack of training leads to the improper use of chokeholds as well as an inability to de-escalate confrontations.   He raises questions worth asking. 

The discussion opens immediately on the topic of chokeholds and moves into the lack of training. 







16 comments:

Anonymous said...

So people have to die because police are poorly trained and police have to die if they can't assume everyone they arrest for being " uncooperative" or "resisting" or for a non-violent, non-felony or warrant for unpaid court fees or failures to appear after a traffic stop is a threat to their safety?

Can't we have a rational discussion without these extreme " either/or" nonsense?

The assumption that arrests can't be made without choke holds is absurd.

Anonymous said...

Equal time to JRE but not for the commenters of your blog. For what? For shekels? Forty pieces of silver?

What a disgrace.

Anonymous said...

The people who want to defund the police are a small but vocal mob who have become the darlings of the media during this pandemic. Their attack on the police is the just the tip of their iceberg to overturn ALL of this society. They know that crippling the police would allow them free reign to intimidate law abiding citizens beyond their numbers. They also intend to demand so many restrictions on police techniques that the job becomes impossible. The voting public MUST demand that their local officials making reasonable reform still support the police and not tie their hands. It can be done, but not if the mayors and councilmen give all weight to the media and bow to this anarchist mob.

Anonymous said...

The time is coming soon when police, who aren't paid enough to deal with this third world bullshit, only show up to take down reports for insurance and to guard the crime labs and coroners while they collect the dead. They will be no different from the police in third world countries. Why? Because they will all be third worlders themselves.

Anonymous said...

You really should post Joe's interview of James Lindsay.

Anonymous said...

8:16 use of force never looks pretty, and criminals do not play by any set of rules - officers' tactics shift, and the force continuum is accelerated based on how an offender complies (or doesn't).

If you are referring to the murder of George Floyd (I am a police officer and everyone I work with agrees on this); the restraint position Floyd was placed in was not a choke hold, it is an adaptation of a temporary offender control technique wherein you apply your body weight to a large muscle group with opposing force from the ground in oder to apply handcuffs or other necessary restraints. The MPD officer didn't deploy the technique correctly and should have either placed Floyd in the recovery position or sat him up as soon as he was handcuffed. (Note: this method of offender control was included in a Minneapolis PD training presentation, and I repeat, the officer did not deploy the technique correctly).

As a 20 year veteran law enforcement officer, I offer the following advice - DON'T FIGHT WITH US, we don't want to fight with you, but we will fight to win; and if you feel you are innocent, use the courts to seek justice, do not attempt to "litigate" your case during an encounter with us, simply follow instructions and most times you will have a positive outcome.

Anonymous said...

All this defund BS goes away when police become adequately trained, police enforce the law justly and equally amongst all people regardless of demographics, and there is accountability for bad cops.

Anonymous said...

Dream on 10:18...when budgets get cut, training is one of the first things to go, and with lower headcount, police will prioritize patrol in high-crime areas, and the number of contacts with certain populations will increase. This problem is rooted in personal responsibility, and those who deny that are denying reality.

Anonymous said...

@10:18, what is your advice if you are in the position of actively being murdered by the police such as the position George Floyd was in? What is the best way to beg for your life and get police to stop murdering you? Should we fight back or just die?

Anonymous said...

@12:37

Personal responsibility lies with all parties involved, and those who deny that are denying reality.

Anonymous said...

Chokehold or no chokehold non-compliance with the police when they give a verbal command is probably not going to end well. Teaching people that they have the right to challenge police authority, on the street, will continue to get people killed. Teach compliance and to challenge in court. You now have video evidence and you might win. You will not win on the street. If you love them, teach your kids.

Anonymous said...

1:45, yes - and when was the last time the police (or poh-leese for those in Niknar) came around...just to come around? They come around because they are dispatched, which is usually the result of someone exercising poor judgement.

Anonymous said...

I remember Jocko from my time in Ramadi when Task Unit Bruiser was tear-assing around the city, albeit in a very surgical, deliberate way, making the insurgents' lives hell. He and his team were responsible for saving hundreds of lives, he is a presence, and one of the most driven individuals I have ever worked with.

Anonymous said...

US police are ridiculously undertrained compared to those in more civilized countries.

They also affect a paramilitary attitude more suited to an occupation force, without however the professionalism, or honor, of the military.

Train & pay them like professionals, & hold them to a higher standard.

Anonymous said...

@5:32

I stand by my statement, regardless if they are dispatched or they are patrolling. Going by the extreme examples, you have situations like the Philando Castile and the guy that got arrested on I-55 for speeding that was non-compliant. One was compliant and got killed, and the other was non-compliant and is lucky that he wasn't killed.

Castile practiced personal responsibility and was killed by a LEO that didn't practice personal responsibility. The idiot on I-55 didn't practice it, and was lucky that he had 2 LEOs that did practice personal responsibility.

It goes both ways.

Anonymous said...

10:12, I gotta disagree with you. Once you tell an officer you have a firearm in the car, your hands need to be planted on the wheel and you should wait for directions from the officer.

I've been in law enforcement for a long time, and any time I'm pulled over it goes something like this:

1. Pull over at a safe place for you and the officer, placing the front of your car at a 45 degree angle from the roadway so the officer can see the entire side of your car and it also gives him/her a safe place to "work."
2. If it's dark, turn on your dome light.
3. Roll down both windows on the driver's side of the car.
4. Retrieve my driver's license from my wallet and place it between the index and middle finger of my left hand.
5. Place my hands at the top of my steering wheel.
6. Wait for instructions relating to producing your license and tell the officer that you are armed and ask him/her how he/she would like you to proceed.
7. Listen and follow directions to the letter.
8. Follow Do everything in slow motion!


Philando Castile told the officer he had a gun and immediately began reaching for either it or his permit -- there was no way way for the officer to know which he was reaching for. The officer has to assume that the next thing that will happen is that he/she is going to get into a gunfight.

Put yourself in the officer's shoes and hopefully your opinion will change.

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