The raucous, at times, incomprehensible first 2020 presidential debate between incumbent Republican President Donald Trump and Democratic contender former Vice President Joe Biden was by most bipartisan assessments a dumpster fire in American democracy.
Please make no mistake; the Trump-Biden debate was embarrassing for our country. It was disheartening in a time of great national turmoil and fear driven by pandemic, social unrest, and unease over the state of the national and global economies. And it begged the sobering question: “Are these two guys the best the United States can do in our search for leadership moving forward?”
Anyone looking for a debate winner between this pair is still looking. Nobody “won” that debate, least of all either candidate or the American electorate.
While the conclusion that it was the worst presidential debate in U.S. history is apt, it’s not the wildest or most intense political debate I’ve ever seen - not by a longshot.
In the 1980s and 1990s, I moderated more than two dozen Mississippi primary and general election debates in congressional, senatorial, and gubernatorial debates. Many of those were under the auspices of the Mississippi Press Association.
But none were more combative and tense than the so-called “Great Debate” between Republican incumbent Gov. Kirk Fordice and Democratic gubernatorial nominee Dick Molpus under the Founder’s Square Pavilion at the Neshoba County Fair.
The late Kirk Fordice, a tough contractor from Vicksburg, made what most observers saw as a meteoric rise in Mississippi politics on the way to being elected governor in 1991 as a challenger to incumbent Democratic Gov. Ray Mabus. But inside the Mississippi GOP, Fordice was well known as one who had been active back to the days of Barry Goldwater.
Fordice unseated Mabus in a close election (50.8 percent victory) in 1991 to become Mississippi’s first Republican governor since Reconstruction despite never holding a prior public office.
By 1995, Fordice was no longer an insurgent businessman – he was a political force of nature. He was challenged by veteran Democratic Secretary of State Dick Molpus of Philadelphia.
Over three consecutive terms in office, Molpus has made a name for himself by raising the secretary of state’s office to prominence with substantive policy accomplishments in school trust land reform, civil rights gains, election reforms, and lobbying reform.
The Fordice-Molpus race initially centered on tax policy. Fordice wanted to implement a three-year plan to cut the state’s income tax by about $80 million.
Molpus countered with an alternative plan to cut the state’s sales tax on groceries, arguing that unlike Fordice’s income tax cut, his plan would help 100 percent of the state’s taxpayers. But the Democrat was politically hamstrung by his prior support for a 1992 sales tax increase enacted over Fordice’s veto. The tax hike was for support of public education, Molpus’s lifelong policy passion.
There was no love lost between the two candidates, a condition that deteriorated during the campaign. At the 1995 Neshoba County Fair, that mutual dislike was center stage at the first political debate in the then 106-year-old campground fair history.
Over 3,000 people crowded in and around the pavilion in stifling heat. A thunderstorm has blown through the fairgrounds, and the humidity was as thick as molasses.
Writers Jere Nash and Andy Taggart recounted the event in their book Mississippi Politics: The Struggle for Power 1976-2006: “I don’t remember from a lifetime of listening to stump speeches…[anything] that even approached the in-your-face tenor of the exchanges between … Fordice and … Molpus. They don’t like each other. They don’t agree with each other politically. And when they both view the other, they see the antithesis of everything they believe in from the standpoint of public policy and the practice of governing.”
Like Trump and Biden, they got after each other hammer and tong. Fordice won the election with 55.4 percent of the vote.
The Trump-Biden debate was chaotic. But at places like the Neshoba County Fair or the Jacinto Courthouse, where politics remains a contact sport, it is - for good or ill - just another day at the office.
Sid Salter is a syndicated columnist. Contact him at sidsalter@sidsalter.com.
Wednesday, October 7, 2020
Sid Salter: As Political Debates Go, Trump-Biden Isn't the Wildest, Most Intense One I've Seen
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37 comments:
Please make no mistake Trump has embarrassed our country. Joe Biden looked like the statesman he is.
When Fordice beat " Save us from Mabus" in 1991 Mabus like the brat he was refused to concede until Kirk told him where to go. He wasn't as sorry as Mike Parker in 1999 who carried on for months thinking he was gonna win. Parker and Mabus two of the worst.
By the way did anybody notice recently that Mike Parker endorsed Joe Biden. Parker was a sorry ass and former Democrat before he became a Republican.
Joe Biden is no damn statesman. He's made racial attacks on Blacks, Indians, Asians, Hispanics and other groups. Go watch a speech he gave on the Senate floor in the mid nineties where he all but called black people the " N " word. And he has dementia so he doesn't remember it.
Both Trump and Biden are ass clowns and just old geezers. I can't believe that those 2 idiots are what we have to choose from.
Up to now, presidential debates have been basically informative affairs presented to allow candidates to present their thoughts and so that voters can compare and contrast their positions on relevant issues. It has not involved sustained argument. That kind of discussion is totally foreign to Donald Trump and he will have no part of it. He cannot allow any position but his own to go unchallenged and will belittle anyone who does not submit. That is his idea of leadership. Many people can accept that. So be it. If Biden and the media want an opportunity to present a civil discussion of the issues without sustained argument they should cancel this year's debates and prepare for the next four years. That's just reality.
Let’s see, as the conspiracy to remove trump from office is unfolding (we see that Clinton spearheaded the document that the government used to attempt to unseat Trump), that the swamp dwellers in the Obama administration including Biden, the CIA, the FBI, the DOJ, and others are all involved.
Trump is right to be angry. For this, he calls out both debaters (Biden, who looks to have been wearing an earpiece ‘good luck’) and Wallace.
Screw them, their defenders and the democrats hellbent on the destruction of the USA.
Creepy Joe sniffs kids and Hunter got kickbacks from Russia. Yet a democrat here Fails to see their corruption.
Democrats are nothing more than traitors. I don't even see them as people anymore. Just communist enemies. Everything from protecting illegal aliens (by definition, criminals) to being activists in the courtroom (soft on crime) to basically embracing outright communism (all social programs, and now UBI/Obamacare) so I couldn't care less about being "Presidential" I want the traitors to receive their traditional punishments.
From observation, it appears the democrats are not for anything. Their sole purpose for existing is to be against anything Trump is for. Their main platform is orange man bad. Are there any adults in that party?
Neither candidate deserves any American vote. Simply put regarding the question of the unrest in this country, both candidates failed. One said to stand down and hold back. That's not a civil move that's an aggressive move. The other said it wasn't his place because he wasn't in office yet he's the head of the Democratic Party and running for said. Therefore being a "do nothing" in which he calls the current president and has said since Trump started running. Both should have denounced the violence and said "STOP THE VIOLENCE."
Yes, well...
Bad manners and the inability to maintain a cool head are flaws in any candidate running for any office.
But, a President has to deal with world leaders who have impeccable manners and who are smart enough to remain cool under fire.
I already knew that men could behave like idiots and have more faith in bullying than in being prepared, clever and having the ability to " let someone else have your way" .
Trump is a lazy loser who is too immature and delusional to have a grown up conversation. Not sure how you debate that other than to watch him self destruct and stand far enough away that you are out of his splatter zone.
The democrats don't like Trump because he doesn't play their game. When the game is rigged, and it is, you have to change the game, Trump has. I should say the Power behind Trump has changed the game. It is considerable power behind Trump. There is no other way he has survived the four-year assault from every direction by the opposition. Not only has he survived, but he has thrived. I'm curious to see how far that power is willing to go. For those not paying attention, that power is on the verge of publicly destroying the opposition with the release of all classified material, unredacted, concerning the spying fiasco on Trump and his campaign. Time will tell.
Democrats loves Trump, he is doing a fantastic job destroying the the Republic Party. Didn't much like Hillary but, had to put someone in that would put the nail in the coffin. I think we succeed most Republican women are voting for Binden and College Educated men are just going to stay home rather than vote for Trump.
Don't worry he is going to be out of the Whitehouse before the end of the year much less January 20th. He will probably look for a forgien country that will give him and his children asslym.
12:07, just think that loser defeated Hillary. Hahahahahahahahahaha. What does that say about your queen?
This ain't a love-fest... you don't have to like or love either personality. What you're doing is selecting a way of life going forward.
It's really looking bad for Trump and the Republicans across the board. How bad is it? His favorite poll, the one conducted by the Republican-leaning Rasmussen, has him down 12 points in their daily tracker. Biden is clearly leading with 52 percent support among likely voters surveyed from Sept. 30 to Oct. 6. These kind of numbers carry a lot of people down with the president.
There really is no hope when conspiracy theorists like @9:43 AM regurgitate these baseless fox news fantasies. Listen, the only people charged and sentenced for crimes are Trump People like Papadopoulos, Flynn, Michael Cohen, and Roger Stone.
Not a single person from the Clinton campaign, the Biden campaig, or the Obama administration has received criminal charges.
Stop believing FAKE NEWS!
Trump should use Covid diagnosis as a reason to cancel the next and maybe both remaining debates. But his ego will not permit that. The debate will further widen Biden’s lead.
12:43 Sorry to tell you this but Donald Trump will not simply leave the White House. He will have to be removed. If he loses he will not concede. He has already said that any election he does not win cannot be valid. There will be a constitutional crisis and he will at least drag it through the courts. Maybe worse.
A Supreme Court which he has dominated but cannot count on when needed will be branded as traitors.
Wait for it.
According to the polls, Biden should win by the same amount as Hillary. Hahahahahahahahahahahaha. How did that work out? Oh yeah, we know how that worked out. TRUMP 2020
Trump is about to get 20/20, 20 to serve and 20 years supervised release.
@2:34
We know polls are meaningless its all about the rallies.
Trump filled stadiums while Hillary couldn't fill a tea room.
Trump is a literal superman who beat Covid-19 in 72 hours while Biden is weak, frail, and declining daily.
Biden barely leaves his basement. And when they let him out without an earpiece he starts talking about roaches sitting on his lap touching the hair on his legs. Thats when he isnt groping or sniffing someone's little girl.
Trump is a real American Hero. Biden is a loathsome swamp creature.
At this point there is nothing Trump can do to lose his base so he will win again.
I wish everyone would just calm down and listen rationally to what each candidate says and/or twitters. Ignore comments and opinions for everyone else, especially their sycophants. Just use your intellect, common sense, morality and sense of decency to evaluate them as individuals. Then decide who to vote for.
I remember Fordice threatening to whoop everyones' ass. I know he told it to Molpus after an event at my local junior college and he told it to Bert Case on camera when he was looking at Fordice's indiscretions.
Anyone who recklessly squandered lives and money in this way should be suffering legal consequences. Our leaders have largely claimed immunity for their actions. But this election gives us the power to render judgment, When it comes to the response to the largest public health crisis of our time, our current political leaders have demonstrated that they are dangerously incompetent. We should not abet them and enable the deaths of thousands more Americans by allowing them to keep their jobs.
" a constitutional crisis "
LOL !
However, you may be right.
But I doubt such a crisis works out like Pelosi and Schumer may have planned.
" I remember Fordice threatening to whoop everyones' ass. I know he told it to Molpus after an event at " he told it to Bert Case on camera when he was looking at Fordice's indiscretions."
Fordice was a real man.
That behavior is normal for real men.
He sprayed Testosterone into every room he walked into.
(The lil' "soy boys" even stopped their whining when Fordice showed up).
"he told it to Molpus'
Molpus ???
Laughing hard at the memory of Molpus !
Two weeks ago I thought Trump could still win. But it's all but over. Just saw a new poll that crazy Joe is up 51-40 in Florida. Trump did it to himself. Instead of maturing in office he went nutso. I'm about as far to the right as they come. How many Republicans will Trump take down with him. Sad.
1:27 you forgot, yet. The powers behind Trump are positioned to burn Obama, Biden, Clinton, and all those working with them. These perps can capitulate are they will face the music. The only option of the Clinton cabal is to instigate civil war. These people would rather burn this country to the ground. You doubt it, listen to what they say.
@6:05
You nuts have been saying that nonsense since 2016. No perp walks yet! In 3 more years the statute of limitations will have passed for any supposed crimes you Q freaks can fantasize about!
And facebook, twitter, and Alphabet (Google/Blogger) will turn over any records of hate speech and conspiracies you losers have uttered.
The next one is going to be virtual and the Covid in Chief has already backed out.
8:08, there isn't a statute of limitations on treason. What laws are broken when someone talks of another persons conspiracies? Once again that key word, yet. Your mistake is thinking Trump is your only problem. He isn't your problem, it's the power behind Trump that is the problem. Your ignorance concerning the way power in this world is structured is on full display. Trump will be your president for the next four years. During those four years, the Clintons and those associated with that power structure will be stripped of their power and influence. They won't go quietly in to that still night. Their plan is to foment societal unrest to the point of ripping this country apart. Also during those four years China will continue to be taken down. This power struggle is a world wide event, not confined to only the U.S. Pay attention grasshopper, you have much to learn.
9:03 Sometimes we all find comfort in the world of make-believe. Sometimes we find terror. If it helps you to believe that politicians will be prosecuted for treason, that's fine. But it's fantasy.
All of them, Democrats and Republicans, have a big laugh when people believe that stuff.
@9:03, in the United States, you need to have evidence of a crime before you can arrest and prosecute. That has been the major hurdle facing and Trump and Barr. Unfortunately for him, the president making an allegation with zero evidence doesn’t hold any weight in our legal system.
Looks like Trump isn’t going to debate again. Don’t blame him as letting the people hear him speak will only hurt his chances. At this point, his only hope of getting elected is to fake the election results. Maybe Russia or whoever he owes $400 million dollars will help him. #loser
I don't intend to get in to a debate. I won't get in to a urinating contest, especially with people that don't know how the powers in this world actually operate. I will be back when Trump is elected for his second term to do a little gloating. That I will do.
As an amateur political "observer" .
Mr. Salter remains lame.
I would much rather have a personal tour of Spain or Tuscany with RSJ and friends.
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