Saturday, June 27, 2020

When I See the Current Mississippi Flag

Madison County resident Donald Drane submitted this guest column. 

The current (and apparently outgoing) Mississippi flag is offensive, victimizing and represents threats, disrespect and alienation.
The first thing that comes to mind is ‘OFFENDED’. The flag reminds me that I’m offended by those who denigrate the decision of my forebears to fight for a cause they believed to be just. I’m offended by those who continue to drag the memory of brave souls through the mud. I’m offended by people who never bothered to learn history and who believe the lie they’ve been told that Lincoln’s Unnecessary War was fought over slavery. Lincoln was a crafty man, and as his brother-in-law suggested, ‘the greatest scoundrel unhung’.

I feel ‘VICTIMIZED’ when I see that flag. I see myself as a victim of the ignorance of others; those who would banish history to the dungeon-cauldron of hatred and spite. I view every Confederate, whether soldier or not, male or female, as a victim, 155 years later, of misinformation and ignorance. The worst sort of ignorance is that which is willful.

I’m ‘THREATENED’. All of us are threatened by interests both from outside and from within. We’re threatened by race-baiters, panderers and perpetrators of regional arrogance - those who’ve convinced others that they need to see themselves as victims. There’s money to be made in race-baiting. Silver is changing hands and is in good supply.

The flag reminds me that we are disrespected and alienated. I sense that millions of souls who either died or lost loved ones in the war are ‘DISRESPECTED and ALIENATED’ for having come to the defense of their country. And, yes, The Confederacy was a newly formed country – rightfully formed by a group of states which consciously chose to leave the same union they had willingly joined. They asked to be left alone, but weren’t.

Memorials, statues, books and symbols can all be hidden away, torched, buried or crumbled, yet the South will always remain a whipping-boy and will never escape the chains of reconstruction.

The war was not about slavery and I encourage those who think it was to look deeper than the surface and to engage in minimal historical research in order to discover the truth. While secession was, in part, attached to the issue of slavery, secession and war were two separate matters entirely. That said, and my opinion is by no means valued or needed, I respectfully and willingly consent to allow either the people or the legislature to remove the Confederate symbol from the state flag. I'm simply tired of what many of us consider heritage and respect being drug through the mud...and I understand the feelings of those who object to its presence.


84 comments:

Anonymous said...

Way to leave out the attack on Fort Sumpter...

Anyone with a brain knows that the North was initially indifferent to slavery in slave powered states pre-civil war. The biggest issue was growing the economy of slavery via expansion to western territories. That was a direct threat to the Union. The North and South knew that if slavery remained contained it would surely die off.

He’s free to believe whatever he needs to, but don’t expect the rest of the country to buy it.

Anon-E-Mouse said...

Mr.Drane, Mississippi secession was for slavery. It’s in their articles of secession.

In 1894, why was the new flag adopted? To perpetuate white supremacy and to remind the former slaves who their masters were.

Why get rid of it?

Jesus (paraphrased) said it is better to tie a millstone around your neck and drown yourself than to cause a child harm. How does the flag harm children? 40% of the population is not Caucasian. They are reminded of times not forgotten when men sought to chain them for free labor, terrorize them by night, treat them like animals (Jim Crow) and second class citizens.

Change the flag to something that doesn’t offend half the state.

Anonymous said...

Meh, looking more and more like the Legislature is going to give us whatever they want. But I will say this, that new son of a bitch better have Unicorns and rainbows on it because I'll be DAMNED if I lose another night of sleep having to worry about this issue in the future!

Anonymous said...

I'm offended by adults in 2020 still drinking the 1890 kool-aid about the glorious cause, heritage and "the war was not about slavery".

Its these fools who have not read history. Nor have they read of the horrors that blacks suffered during the last years of Jim Crow as whites hung on to supremacy. And that confederate imagery was present every single time they terrorized somebody.

Anonymous said...

People who are so proud of Confederate symbolism should have stood up and protected it against adoption by hate groups over the last 100 years.

Where have you been? Why were you not so worked up when the KKK marched with it?

Anonymous said...

Well Said

Anonymous said...

Thank God Mr. Crane has highlighted his screed with large type so that we may understand all his emotions as he reviews the state flag.

Anonymous said...

However deluded your reasoning is, why is it only your heritage that we have to celebrate?


Thomas Gentry said...

Finally,a scholar steps around all the "SCAT" being spread around this blog: The WAR was about the right of Secession.
Even at the beginning of Lincoln mobilizing 75000
Yankee troops,leading abolitionist and editor of The New York Tribune, Horace Greely, said "let them go in peace" to avoid the bloodshed that was to follow.Can't we cease this use of profanity and "SCAT" to make a comment thinking in some twisted way that it embelishes an argument.

Anonymous said...

In your view, the war wasn't about slavery. Slavery ended as a result of the war and our Union was saved. Countless people mistreated in bondage were set free.
It takes a narrow minded person, who cannot see that the flag is a reminder of that painful and disgusting time in our country.
What you should feel is SHAME for any of your ancestors who participated in this tragedy.

MadisonRulz said...

The Civil War not about slavery? Just......wow.

Mad Money said...

Finally someone speaks for me and my ancestors.

Jeff Davis said...

It seems that everyone that wants to retain the current flag ultimately point heritage. Before I dive too deep in my history research that Mr. Drane has tasked me with, I thought the purpose of the flag is to show unity, togetherness or one as a team on the same side. Our current state flag does not represent that. It is obviously divisive. Flags evolve over years as things change, such as our American flag and our own state flag. We as a state have evolved but our state flag has not and the confederate emblem gives the perception we haven’t. It is time to show we have evolved. Be honest and ask yourself, when you see the confederate flag flying in front of a house or trailer, do you think that person living there is proud of their heritage. I’m guessing most of us don’t. More than likely, most think a redneck lives there. To set the record straight I’m a white guy that most consider old and a Republican. It’s time for our elected leaders to actually lead.

Anonymous said...

I don't know how many of you commentors are gamers. But there is a series called Fallout that has been very popular in recent years. That game series takes place in a post nuclear apocalyptic future in the USA. In this future, slavery has returned to America. But the truth is that slacery exists right now in our current time. Most prominently in Africa and the Middle East

Anonymous said...

First rule of being taken seriously is to write in bold and all-caps. Next time, please write your column in crayon. For those of us who may not recognize your name next time, it will provide context as to how seriously we should take you before we start reading.

In your research on Civil War History and how Secession was definitely not due to slavery, did you come across the Mississippi Articles of Secession? If not, I'll make your research easy and provide a link here: https://www.battlefields.org/learn/primary-sources/declaration-causes-seceding-states#Mississippi

At the very top, the Draftsmen made their position in committing treason against the USA clear: "Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery[.] . . . There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin. That we do not overstate the dangers to our institution, a reference to a few facts [on slavery] will sufficiently prove."

I really don't know how you reconcile that with your statement that the Civil War was not about slavery, but whatever floats your boat. From here, you look like the exact type of unhinged person who still refers to one of our greatest Presidents, Lincoln, as a "scoundrel."

Can't wait for that flag to go.

Anonymous said...

How it all started: State Rights = Economic Independence/Superiority = Slavery

Any possible way the confederates (or the deluded people of today) try to slice it up - the "cause" was ultimately about slavery. The south had no payroll budget to make. Unlimited free labor was what you call it. In the future, similar battles may be fought over robotics putting millions out of jobs. That won't be a moral issue though, and in no way comparative to the horrors of enslaving an entire people to work for their existence.

Anonymous said...

Those who believe that slavery no longer exists in America are either naive, or simply ignoring facts. The plantation master has been replaced with a sophisticated network of organized and enterprise criminals who work with cartels to provide a pipeline of humans.

Oh, and change the damn flag - I agree with the sentiment that a flag should unite the people it represents. A simple design with the state coat of arms in the center with some red and blue would be nice...

Anonymous said...

Your history got hijacked by racist extremist. Much the same can be said of the Black Lives Matter movement being hijacked by a bunch of hippie anti anything wanna be white kids.

Anonymous said...

Slavery, worldwide, was an abhorrent situation. Various racial and ethnic peoples were traded and sold into slavery or captured and made slaves, all over the globe. The US Government approved of it.

As the initial post states: The War and Secession were two different things. The Confederate States of America, a legally formed separate country, asked to be left alone. If you believe it to not have been legal, point out your reference. Nobody seceded 'in order to go to war'. Lincoln forced war upon everybody.

Sumpter? Only those who have no historical knowledge don't recognize that Sumpter was on Confederate States property. Lincoln chose to keep the fort occupied by Union troops. He was warned multiple times not to send union supply ships into the harbor. In order to incite war, he did so anyway. The Confederacy was not only then occupied by Union troops, but invaded by Lincoln's supply ships, and defended its ground. Thanks for bringing that up, though, it's a good testimony to ignorance.

Lincoln freed nobody. Slavery was abolished after the war, not during the war, and was a congressional act. Prior to that, many slaves were owned in Union states as well, but none were freed. Lincoln's comments (authenticated) are numerous in his support of slavery, where it existed.

Lincoln knew full well his dreams of continued taxation would not survive without the Confederate States in the Union. He chose to invoke war - having nothing to do with slavery.

History is your friend. Stop running from it with your fingers in your ears.

The flag will be changed. That's not denied. The time has come. Then the SEC, Baptists, Episcopals, NAACP and NCAA can concentrate on the flags of Alabama and Texas and Mississippi can move forward in unity.

Anonymous said...

I could swear some days that Don was dropped on his head at birth but kudos to him for stepping forward to offer an opinion.

Six Page List said...

Many are asking, 'what's next?'. Put this tweet by a relative of a current candidate in the 'What's Next' column. Tip of the iceberg.

Jamilla Espy
@getanespy
·
23h
While we're at it, Mississippi must get rid of Confederate Heritage Month, Confederate Memorial Day and Robert E Lee Day.

Anonymous said...

Keep your flag, it reminds me that you are a LOSER.

Anonymous said...

@ 6:50

Without opining about the current state flag, the secession convention had a choice of voting on two resolutions. One to secede and one to remain in the union. The vote to secede, which passed, made no reference to slavery. The ordinance of secession passed by a vote of the secession convention does not mention slavery. The option to remain in the union, was replete with references to slavery. The secede option won by an approximate 80/20 vote.

After the secede option passed on the first couple of days in the convention, other matters where undertaken. A group of 4 or 5 delegates formed a committee to draft a "declaration of causes". Their work was not complete for a few weeks, at which time, a large portion of the delegates had returned home as the important work had been more or less completed. The "declaration of causes" was "adopted", but it does not appear to have ever been voted on or really even discussed. It was probably important to those who had drafted it, but is unclear on how important it was to the rest of the pro-secede voters.

The 7 state confederacy lived in peace for the next 4-5 months at which point they felt firing at the fort in Charleston Harbor was a good idea. As a direct result, Lincoln called for an army of 75k from the remaining states to crush the rebellion. Upper south states of Virginia (who had previously rejected secession), N. Carolina, Tennessee and Arkansas refused to provide troops to invade the lower south and subsequently seceded. Voila, war.

While slavery was indeed part of secession, I've always looked at it as did Andrew Jackson speaking after the nullification crisis "the tariff was only a pretext, and disunion and southern confederacy the real object. The next pretext will be the negro, or slavery question."

I've never understood how the north, with slave states of Missouri, Kentucky, Maryland, Delaware, West Virginia and a state where slaves were legally held as late as 1860, New Jersey (who also voted against the 13th Amendment in 1865) would invade other slave states for the purpose of ending slavery.

Anonymous said...

"Mr.Drane, Mississippi secession was for slavery. It’s in their articles of secession."

I don't think he denies that. Obviously the articles of secession state that fact. What he said is Secession and War were two different things. If war had been the objective, would it not have been mentioned during the period of secession? No state seceded in order to or intending to go to war.

The South was already propping up a majority of the country's economy. If Lincoln had backed off his unfair cotton tariff and tax demands and instituted fair taxation, historians opine there would have *been* no war. But, alas.

Anonymous said...

"A simple design with the state coat of arms in the center..."

The state coat of arms features a powder blue shield (that will please the lawyers that have ties to TSUN) and a cartoon bird that appears to be a cross between a pelican and a buzzard.

According to this link, the State Food is the butter cookie. Who can't love a butter cookie. Now there's something that could unite us all.

Replace Virtue et Arms with Kum Bah Ya. Somebody rush this to Delbert.

Anonymous said...

To further the author and some commenter's education. If the Southern States wanted to preserve slavery, then they would have stayed in the Union where it was written in the Constitution and the Supreme Court ruled in favor of the preservation. So lets fast forward to the adoption of Our current State Flag. The reason for creating a new State Flag was to progress forward from the Antebellum age and Reconstruction age. In doing so, our ancestors created a flag that sowed their solemn oath of allegiance to the Union in the flag that was inclusive for the Black, White, and Native soldiers who served the Confederacy. So the decedents there of will always honor the oath to never rebel against the Union. That is the heritage of the flag. The only way I could understand the authors point of view was through the lens of Racism which was difficult for me because I'm not a Racist.

Anonymous said...

While I don’t agree with the post, I admire him for signing his name front and center.

Anonymous said...

why not change a state flag? it’s not a holy relic. changing it doesn’t erase the history of the confederacy.

and if you know how to read, follow the link given by 6:50. if there ever was a “it says right here” moment, that’s it. (of course there were plenty of other issues...)

we can’t ignore the past but let’s not be beholden to it.

Anonymous said...

Read the actual Emancipation Proclamation. Lincoln ONLY FREED THE SLAVES IN THE SOUTHERN STATES THAT WERE REBELLING. The northern states could KEEP THEIR SLAVES.

Anonymous said...

Apparently not just our flag.

https://www.wlbt.com/2020/06/26/mississippi-pastor-fired-after-participating-rallies-speaking-out-against-racial-inequality/

Anonymous said...

"If the Southern States wanted to preserve slavery, then they would have stayed in the Union"

Very true. The Emancipation Proclamation was an act of war. It could not have been done in peacetime any more than a president today could ban the private ownership of internal combustion engine vehicles by executive order. In 1860 there were 15 slave-owning states, which means in order to pass constitutional amendment banning the practice, 45 free states would need to band together. Since even today we do not have 60 states, this would have been impossible and thus slavery safe. I don't think any politician of the time would have dreamed simply passing a federal law banning the practice would have passed constitutional muster under 1860 jurisprudence. Everyone of the time understood slavery to be an internal state matter that could only be eliminated through the amendment process.

The southern states had lost power in the house or representatives, as their population lagged behind the north. They were losing power in the senate as more free states were admitted. The final straw was when a regional political party's candidate won in 1860. Lincoln did not even appear on most southerners' ballots. The northern presidential election was Lincoln v. Douglas. In the south, it was Bell v. Breckinridge. In the end, it made no difference for whom the south voted, they were voiceless. The 1850s dissolution of the national Whig Party was probably more influential to secession than slavery, however I'm guessing the secession rally cry of "We need a real choice between national political parties" was not nearly the effective battle cry "they're trying to take our slaves!" was.

Anonymous said...

As long as we get rid of the racist flag of the State of Mississippi, I don't give a rat's ass what you think.

Anonymous said...

Good luck people of Mississippi, we are about to become the scapegoat of the woke movement. We will carry the accusations of racism forever forward with no vindication. Please go ahead and change the name of the state while we are at it, lets start a contest. Oh, don't forget to learn to speak without a southern accent, it could be viewed negatively in the future.

Anonymous said...

No human being should ever be enslaved. I have no problem changing the flag. The only problem I have is these idiots that think they know history. Donald Drane is absolutely correct.

Anonymous said...

9:29 am

Women love a southern accent in their men. It will always be desirable outside of the far left crowd, who all smell like crap anyway (because they don't wipe properly).

Anonymous said...

You can change the flag, but the disharmony will live on.

➜ Who will create the new flag? Will it be done by committee?
➜ Who will make the decision about which flag best represents everyone?
➜ Will it be done by the Governor or by a popular vote?
➜ Since it will be unpopular with many, perhaps a majority, how will the replacement of the old flag be orchestrated?
➜ Will refusal to honor the new flag be considered a civil offense, or merely a social faux pas?

Changing the flag will change will not change anything. That's an "inside job".

Anonymous said...

Why does your heritage deserve a spot on my flag?

Anonymous said...

Is a cave in coming in the near future?

https://www.wlbt.com/2020/06/27/miss-governor-state-flag-if-they-send-me-bill-this-weekend-i-will-sign-it/

Kingfish said...

Quit trying to dox him. Not approving the comments that do.

Better Quit Drivin' That Hot Rod Lincoln said...

7:57 - You referenced a prior link with a remark about 'being able to read'. Assuming you can do that yourself, please refer to the post at 8:31 for further education.

Back to the link to Mississippi Official State Food, which was omitted.

https://www.tasteofhome.com/collection/the-official-food-of-every-state/

Then there's this for those of you who remain Lincoln purists:

On the topic of emancipation, Lincoln said, "Free them, and make them politically and socially our equals? My own feelings will not admit of this. We cannot, then, make them equals"

On defending the right of slave owners, "When they remind us of their constitutional rights to own slaves, I acknowledge them, not grudgingly but fully and fairly; and I would give them any legislation for the reclaiming of their fugitives." < Abraham Lincoln - ibid. (that means same as above for you people who don't care for accurate history).

So...It appears we can add to the list of demands: "Change the name of Lincoln County!"

To recap here: This is no longer a flag debate. The writer of the original post called our attention to that fact. That debate is over and is to be decided by our elected delegates to Jackson. It's now about historical accuracy for those who care about such, recognizing that most on the left have no regard for it.

Anonymous said...

I live in Mississippi, but am not native to Mississippi. I grew up in a place that Northerners considered the South and Southerners considered the North.
I have lived in seven states (WA, OH, NY, KY, TX, FL and MS).
I have attended 5 different colleges and universities all across our United States.
I have worked for the VA, small businesses and large corporations. And I have stayed at home to raise our children.
I have taught Sunday School and volunteer with local charities.
I have been a lot of places and met a lot of people.
Never once have I ever heard anyone argue that a “state” or “country” has or had a right to make or keep a law that permits a person to enslave a human being.
We are all created in Gods image. Each one of us is a reflection of the Creator of the sun and the moon, the earth and the sky, the land and the sea, and all the flora and fauna.
The Mississippi flag is gross. That upper left corner harkens back to a time when people looked directly into another persons eyes, looked upon the very image of God created by God, and said “I own that.”

Anonymous said...

The black community as a whole have much bigger issues to address than a damn flag - violent crime, fatherless homes, violent crime, lack of responsibility, violent crime, poor graduation rates, violent crimes. But do they, most especially their leaders ever address these issues? Every now and again after a particularly heinous crime, Kenneth "Big Swoll" Stokes will organize a candlelight vigil and call for more police. But actually calling on his people to act civilized, nope it never happens.

It is difficult to walk forward when you are always looking backward.

Anonymous said...

Drop the needle on “ Talking loud and saying nothing” by James Brown. He had it figured out years ago.

Anonymous said...

Couple of thoughts on all this:

1) If the flag is changed, I can’t WAIT for the SEC Championship and Super Bowl To come to Mississippi in the near future! After all, the flag has been the reason they have not been held here.

In addition, once it’s changed, Amazon, Ford, Google and others will be moving here. We have been told time and time again by people like Tate, Donna and Bennie. Just let me know where to apply! That old darn glad will be gone and Mississippi will move to the top of every list for employers. After all, we have such smart people coming out of the top-notch colleges and universities here.

2) People should just Democrat in every election from here on out. It’s clear Reeves, Gunn, Harkins and others don’t give a damn about people’s votes, so just give them to the Dems. At least they will give you a van ride to get to the polls.

While we are at it, let’s just forego the Presidential election and give Biden the office. Votes don’t matter, do they?

Anonymous said...

Throughout history men have fought wars for some of the most heinous and low-down reasons one can imagine. If they win, they re-invent or re-state the reasons to make themselves look heroic. Happens all the time. Hitler would have done it, He was working on it. The South seceded to perpetuate human slavery and a war was fought to prevent that secession. The Confederacy's cause was as heinous and low-down as any in history. But politics, racism, and appeasement followed the war and white Southerners were allowed to sanitize their version of history and glorify their "cause". They were also allowed to announce their opposition to change and intimidation of the former slaves...hence the flag. It was meant to be more than just a reminder that Mississippi will remain hostile to change. It has been effective.

Burn, baby, burn said...

Change the flag and let the flag burning begin. Burn, baby, burn.

For you literacy challenged types, that is burn the new flag, not the old.

Long live the South!

Thomas Gentry said...

The most moving speech ever presented in the U.
S. Congress was the Secessionist speech given
by the Rothschild agent Louisiana Senator Judah P. Benjamin. It was given to standing ovations by members of Congress. Benjamin was appointed Attorney General by President Davis at the Constitutional convention in Montgomery. Both Rothschild agents Benjamin and August Belmont had been close allies to Jefferson Davis before the war in arranging Letters of Credit to purchase slave property at auctions.

BTW, there is no "p" in the spelling of Sumter which was the name that Commander Raphael Semmes gave to his first "prize" ship that he created from scrap down in Plaquemines Parrish before he took command of the Alabama in Liverpool.

Anonymous said...

If Mississippi had changed that damn flag 20 or 30 years ago as it could have, with the rest of the country in turmoil and conflict, we would now be looking like an intelligent and progressive place. No such luck.

Anonymous said...

State Flags don’t mean anything to me. Much like college mascots. Nothing. We should only observe one flag and it’s the Stars and Stripes. You don’t like it leave. But remember, there are STILL a lot of dead bodies in Europe, Asia, The Pacific Islands, that are still unaccounted for and will never be due to the effects of artillery on Infantrymen and sailors who were buried or died at Sea or Aircrewmen who does in combat and bodies never found. I know they are looking down upon us and shaking their heads right now. They answered the call and went. The ones that came back showed how strong they were by being told you have no problems, live with it. You were forgotten, so what? Or was a Police Action (Korea) and many were spit on when they arrived home (Vietnam). What’s going on today is not right. But to cause this much ruckus over a symbol? Come on. Who cares? Yes I had relatives to fight in the Civil War. They are gone. I can’t do anything about it. Raise the Stars and Stripes and tell ALL states to tuck away their flags because in some way or Fashion they are wrong. Just an ordinary guy talking.

Anonymous said...

If a new state flag is adopted I wonder how much support the left will give to those that wish to burn it.

Anonymous said...

Whatever happened to the old saying "Don't be a victim"?

Be accountable for your own feelings, respect history and don't be a damned pantywaist.

Anonymous said...

How about we make our new business partner feel welcome and put the NFL Shield on our flag? Since the new flag will surely land Mississippi a franchise.

Even better,we replace the current flag in 1 year increments. Selling the flag to highest bidder for advertisement. All the woke companies can put their logo on it for $100 million per year.

Anonymous said...

I keep reading misconstrued history about succession and the reasons for it, but put a pin in that for a minute, and tell me why all of these heritage nuts have not spoken out in defense of the battle flag when it was used by terrorists for 130 years? Every lynching and every KKK rally I've seen pictures of also has confederate battle flags flying everywhere.

Had you been that outspoken about saving it your flag and your heritage from those nuts, maybe you would have a leg to stand on.

Even in recent years, Dylan Roof wrapped himself in the confederate battle flag while executing 9 people in a church. And the flag was present in large numbers (along with Nazi flags) at the Charlottesville white supremacist rally where the crazy white dude ran his car over people.

Its got to go. Believe what you want about the Civil War.

Who Dat said...

I don't know what folks in Monroe or Shreveport think about having a pelican feeding her blood to her brood of 3 chicks in the nest on the current Louisiana State Flag, but that same image was on their flag when they signed up with the Confederacy. Why no "flap" about that flag?

Anonymous said...

The House voted to suspend the rules to allow a vote tomorrow on a bill that will abolish the current flag design and create a commission to design a new one. Hopefully the Senate will do likewise, and the bill will pass both chambers tomorrow.

Anonymous said...

Bless 10:45 for mentioning that Fort Sumter is spelled with no P.

And every one of you, whatever your stance in the flag matter, should re-read 10:37's heartfelt comments.

Most of you that have buttressed your conclusions with "history" are not so much inaccurate as incomplete. Leaving slavery aside--as if we could do that with a straight face--the political, economic, and above all power structure of the time are enormously complicated and cannot propely be addressed in a blog post. A few scattered facts don't "prove" anything--one way or the other.
But humanity can at least make us all think. I am an agnostic, but I am moved almost to tears at the thought of one human looking at another and saying, "I own that." And thinking that your God, or any god, would approve such a sentiment. I'd never really thought of it that way.

Anonymous said...

There was slavery under the US flag. We need to change that next. Tear down this whole thing.

Anonymous said...

The rednecks in Shreveport and Monroe would prefer the stars and bars. Luckily the folk in New Orleans and Baton Rouge rule the state.

Anonymous said...

1:53 Like other state flags the Louisiana flag was not carried into lynchings by racist thugs or used to symbolize the cause of depriving citizens of their human rights. That ole pelican might look silly but it's hard to hate it.

Anonymous said...

Pelican? I thought that was a turkey vulture all these years. Learn something new every day.

But, seriously, LA did not carry that as an official flag into Civil War battles because it didn't become the official flag until 1912.

However, the flag of today, and the unofficial LA flag in 1861, say UNION.

Luckily, most Loser-Anny soldiers could not read well enough to be confused.

Anonymous said...

Who the heck is Donald Drane?

And why give him space to spread ignorance?

What next? Holocaust denial? The Moon landings were a hoax?

Anonymous said...

2:02, slavery was abolished under the US flag also. So were the Nazis. So was Jim Crow. Big difference.

Anonymous said...

That flag represents hate, slavery, rape, murder, supremacy, separation, ignorance, bigotry, foolishness, embarrassment and bullies. Good riddance.

Anonymous said...

Change the flag. Suddenly the cush of Jacktown and all of Mississippi will be brotherhood, apple pie and ribs.

Anonymous said...

The state flag should be neutral in all respects. If the current flag is replaced - and it should be - you may still display the Confederate battle flag on your property if you wish and don’t care who it offends. But the state should not be in the business of offending a significant number of its citizens, both black and white.

Anonymous said...

The flag is going to get changed. Good. Now we can move on as this is is a sure sign that we are not a racist state.

Just like when Obama was elected we proved we were not a racist nation.

It’s smooth sailing from here on out!

Everything is fixed!

Anonymous said...

Actually,3:42, Lincoln's emissary, Sherman, was the one who perpetrated rape, murder,theft, supremacy,slaughter of non-combatant women and children, torching, looting and the taking of every animal he could either skin or sexually assault. Historical reading is your friend, even though it's difficult with that eighth grade education. Persevere,you'll make it.

Anonymous said...

Ive never understood why people alive today defend a flag that has a symbol from the losing side of a bloody war.

Anonymous said...

3:42, no it doesn’t you silly goose!

It’s a state flag that represents our shared history.

Now that it’s going to get changed we can finally stop hearing from the liberals and blacks that life’s not fair. We are moving on and this whole discussion about races not being treated fairly can stop.

Kingfish said...

Why shouldn't I allow it? There have been several columns published this week that have various views on the flag.

No cancel culture here. I remember during the NAFTA debate how the media choked off any opposing views. The unions and Pat Buchanan had problems purchasing ad space or air time for commercials. For example, the Wall Street Journal would not allow anti-NAFTA ads.

I'm not pulling that crap here. Mr. Drane wrote a column that politely and adequately expressed his views. Some people didn't like the columns advocating changing the flag that I posted earlier in the week. Oh well. I also allowed the comments that took issue with his column to be posted as well.

Anonymous said...

@6:10 and 5:52, your silly thoughts exactly.

Thomas Gentry said...

The best source to find what the then 1930s still living slaves of Mississippi thought of chattel slavery can be found online at the MBAH " Slave Narratives" which were transcribed from oral interviews conducted by staff during the economic depression.
Nothing like what Harriet Beecher Stowe wrote in her fictional account of Uncle Tom"s Cabin during her residence at Bowdin College in Maine where her rabid abolitionist husband was a professor. Mississippi's own Hodding Carter,Jr. Was a 1927 Alumnus of Bowdin College. Not in the same year,but Henry Wordsworth Longfellow, too, was an Alumnus.


















Thomas Gentry said...

The Slave Narratives are online at the Mississippi Department of Archives and History

Paul Mitchell said...

Is there any possibility that we move on without any state flag at all? That seems to be the smartest thing to do in this ridiculous period of time. Please just say no to a state flag, otherwise there is no telling what embarrassing garbage they will promote.

Man, God forbid we actually use a flag that started out with the name of The Stennis Flag. Remember who was involved with the filibuster of the Civil Rights Act of 1964? Might as well call that the Ku Klux Klan flag instead of the Stennis Flag.

Anonymous said...

Those whose views and facts differ from the views and facts of liberal democrats should never be allowed in public discourse. We don't need to hear from them. Ban their ability to speak, if not their ability to hold opinions.

Shout them down. Punish them. Drown them out. Pull the cords on microphones and refuse to allow them on stage. We can't be havin' alternate opinions up in here. They got no bidness on our liberal campus or in our lecture hall or our auditoria. Muzzle them bastards! And when they come up for air, bloody their skulls. Yes! And stick your fingers in their salads.

Start with Scripture said...

If you have participated in a war to free people who have suffered under dictatorship or tyranny, free them and then expect them to mmediately change their behavior and success rate as a society, then you simply don't understand history. If you do understand history and still feel that way, you just might be a racist. I am white. If my skin color had been in chains, degraded, raped, humiliated, tortured and had built a nation on my people's shoulders...I hope you would understand it would take a few generations to at least begin to surface without pain and fear. This is an opportunity to love and not be "put out" or "inconvenienced" or "impatient" because things aren't changing fast enough to suit you. Be thankful for what you have and then reach out hard, even after you get your hand slapped many times. Then reach out even more. I have to watch out for it every day within myself and I am a veteran of two such wars of liberation. Start with me.

Thomas Gentry said...

@4:23
What "wars of Liberation" can that be?

Anonymous said...

White Man Posted: If my skin color had been in chains, degraded, raped, humiliated, tortured and had built a nation on my people's shoulders...I hope you would understand it would take a few generations to at least begin to surface without pain and fear.

Get out your calculator and tell me how many generations have come and gone in the past 160 years? Or, if you prefer, since 1964. In the latter case, my guess is four. But, you sit there and suggest a change of flags will represent a turning point?

Then take a look at the Chinese people in this country, the Italians and Jews and tell us how many generations it took them to step up and succeed. Hint: One.

Kingfish said...

Guess someone forgot about Jim crow

Anonymous said...

If Stennis gets cancelled posthumously, then so should Byrd.

Both were racists AND Democrats.

Anonymous said...

Not that any of you 'experts' care to educate yourselves, but, this is provided for the handful that might.

http://www.ushist.com/general-information/10_causes_of_the_war_between_the_states.shtml

Anonymous said...

5:32 am early in the COMMENTS, hits the nail on the head with the simple point: None of the "Heritage" crew EVER took any real stand against the various hate groups who used that damn flag in their reign of terrorizing people. "Don't you dare use the flag my family fought for to represent your evil!" Said NONE of these Heritage folks. EVER.

Without any real effort to separate the hate from your treasured symbol, your argument that it's anything more than what YOU let it become, rings hollow. Way too little, way too late.

Anonymous said...

June 28 @6:00pm

It is funny how some always bring up immigrant groups that succeed in this nation after only a generation or two. Initially neither the Italians or Chinese had it so easy. I still remember some Italians in south La. being referred to as New Orleans n*****s because of their olive hues.

However, those immigrants were not robbed, raped, and pillaged of their heritage. There is no known redlining in their neighborhoods. There were no Jim Crow laws to suppress their advancement. There is probably not the same level of discrimination against them (esp. Italians)that there is/was against blacks. Not to mention the other myriad of things that have been done throughout U.S. history. Asians have always been looked upon as the model minority, because of their "meekness" or lack of involvement in much of the political arena. They have been generally left alone. All of these minorities, like the bulk of white Americans, have a sense of place by knowing their history, because it can be actively traced for the most part. They were not robbed or ripped from their heritage. If you were a descendant of a slave, then you really do not have that same sense of place, that foundational pride, that a lot of immigrant groups have. Hell, you can even compare immigrant black Africans or Caribbean immigrants to black Americans and see the difference. Immigrant Africans and Caribbean immigrants even manage to be successful after a generation or two also.

Equal treatment under the law is all anyone wants. If that was the case, no one would give a rat's a** about the flag being flown.

Anonymous said...

How do you goobs know who individually and in groups raised hell when Southern Heritage Symbols were co-opted by people like skin heads. Short answer...you have no fucking idea.

12:46 - the answer to your sophomoric social diatribe is this: Equality of opportunity is guaranteed - Equality of outcome is not.

The Great Society was birthed right at 50 years ago. Assuming many become parents at 15, that's about 3.5 generations. How long does it take for a group of people, any race, creed or nationality to snatch itself up and do right? What has changed since 1964 in the 'minority community' that has become the 'majority community' in innumerable cities. What's your magic number of generations needed to rebuild family values and family structure, or will you always blame the decline in those two things on government?

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Trollfest '09

Trollfest '07 was such a success that Jackson Jambalaya will once again host Trollfest '09. Catch this great event which will leave NE Jackson & Fondren in flames. Othor Cain and his band, The Black Power Structure headline the night while Sonjay Poontang returns for an encore performance. Former Frank Melton bodyguard Marcus Wright makes his premier appearance at Trollfest singing "I'm a Sweet Transvestite" from "The Rocky Horror Picture Show." Kamikaze will sing his new hit, “How I sold out to da Man.” Robbie Bell again performs: “Mamas, don't let your babies grow up to be Bells” and “Any friend of Ed Peters is a friend of mine”. After the show, Ms. Bell will autograph copies of her mug shot photos. In a salute to “Dancing with the Stars”, Ms. Bell and Hinds County District Attorney Robert Smith will dance the Wango Tango.

Wrestling returns, except this time it will be a Battle Royal with Othor Cain, Ben Allen, Kim Wade, Haley Fisackerly, Alan Lange, and “Big Cat” Donna Ladd all in the ring at the same time. The Battle Royal will be in a steel cage, no time limit, no referee, and the losers must leave town. Marshand Crisler will be the honorary referee (as it gives him a title without actually having to do anything).


Meet KIM Waaaaaade at the Entergy Tent. For five pesos, Kim will sell you a chance to win a deed to a crack house on Ridgeway Street stuffed in the Howard Industries pinata. Don't worry if the pinata is beaten to shreds, as Mr. Wade has Jose, Emmanuel, and Carlos, all illegal immigrants, available as replacements for the it. Upon leaving the Entergy tent, fig leaves will be available in case Entergy literally takes everything you have as part of its Trollfest ticket price adjustment charge.

Donna Ladd of The Jackson Free Press will give several classes on learning how to write. Smearing, writing without factchecking, and reporting only one side of a story will be covered. A donation to pay their taxes will be accepted and she will be signing copies of their former federal tax liens. Ms. Ladd will give a dramatic reading of her two award-winning essays (They received The Jackson Free Press "Best Of" awards.) "Why everything is always about me" and "Why I cover murders better than anyone else in Jackson".

In the spirit of helping those who are less fortunate, Trollfest '09 adopts a cause for which a portion of the proceeds and donations will be donated: Keeping Frank Melton in his home. The “Keep Frank Melton From Being Homeless” booth will sell chances for five dollars to pin the tail on the jackass. John Reeves has graciously volunteered to be the jackass for this honorable excursion into saving Frank's ass. What's an ass between two friends after all? If Mr. Reeves is unable to um, perform, Speaker Billy McCoy has also volunteered as when the word “jackass” was mentioned he immediately ran as fast as he could to sign up.


In order to help clean up the legal profession, Adam Kilgore of the Mississippi Bar will be giving away free, round-trip plane tickets to the North Pole where they keep their bar complaint forms (which are NOT available online). If you don't want to go to the North Pole, you can enjoy Brant Brantley's (of the Mississippi Commission on Judicial Performance) free guided tours of the quicksand field over by High Street where all complaints against judges disappear. If for some reason you are unable to control yourself, never fear; Judge Houston Patton will operate his jail where no lawyers are needed or allowed as you just sit there for minutes... hours.... months...years until he decides he is tired of you sitting in his jail. Do not think Judge Patton is a bad judge however as he plans to serve free Mad Dog 20/20 to all inmates.

Trollfest '09 is a pet-friendly event as well. Feel free to bring your dog with you and do not worry if your pet gets hungry, as employees of the Jackson Zoo will be on hand to provide some of their animals as food when it gets to be feeding time for your little loved one.

Relax at the Fox News Tent. Since there are only three blonde reporters in Jackson (being blonde is a requirement for working at Fox News), Megan and Kathryn from WAPT and Wendy from WLBT will be on loan to Fox. To gain admittance to the VIP section, bring either your Republican Party ID card or a Rebel Flag. Bringing both and a torn-up Obama yard sign will entitle you to free drinks served by Megan, Wendy, and Kathryn. Get your tickets now. Since this is an event for trolls, no ID is required. Just bring the hate. Bring the family, Trollfest '09 is for EVERYONE!!!

This is definitely a Beaver production.


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Trollfest '07

Jackson Jambalaya is the home of Trollfest '07. Catch this great event which promises to leave NE Jackson & Fondren in flames. Sonjay Poontang and his band headline the night with a special steel cage, no time limit "loser must leave town" bout between Alan Lange and "Big Cat"Donna Ladd following afterwards. Kamikaze will perform his new song F*** Bush, he's still a _____. Did I mention there was no referee? Dr. Heddy Matthias and Lori Gregory will face off in the undercard dueling with dangling participles and other um, devices. Robbie Bell will perform Her two latest songs: My Best Friends are in the Media and Mama's, Don't Let Your Babies Grow up to be George Bell. Sid Salter of The Clarion-Ledger will host "Pin the Tail on the Trial Lawyer", sponsored by State Farm.

There will be a hugging booth where in exchange for your young son, Frank Melton will give you a loooong hug. Trollfest will have a dunking booth where Muhammed the terrorist will curse you to Allah as you try to hit a target that will drop him into a vat of pig grease. However, in the true spirit of Separate But Equal, Don Imus and someone from NE Jackson will also sit in the dunking booth for an equal amount of time. Tom Head will give a reading for two hours on why he can't figure out who the hell he is. Cliff Cargill will give lessons with his .80 caliber desert eagle, using Frank Melton photos as targets. Tackleberry will be on hand for an autograph session. KIM Waaaaaade will be passing out free titles and deeds to crackhouses formerly owned by The Wood Street Players.

If you get tired come relax at the Fox News Tent. To gain admittance to the VIP section, bring either your Republican Party ID card or a Rebel Flag. Bringing both will entitle you to free drinks.Get your tickets now. Since this is an event for trolls, no ID is required, just bring the hate. Bring the family, Trollfest '07 is for EVERYONE!!!

This is definitely a Beaver production.

Note: Security provided by INS
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