Update: Magistrate Linda Anderson set bond at $25,000 for Adams and placed him under house arrest once the bond is posted. Adams waived indictment.
U.S. Attorney Mike Hurst issued the following statement.
JACKSON MAN CHARGED IN MULTIMILLION DOLLAR FRAUD SCHEME
AFFECTING HUNDREDS OF VICTIMS ACROSS MULTIPLE STATES
Arthur Lamar Adams, 58, of Jackson, has been charged by Criminal Information for his role in a large multi-million dollar Ponzi scheme that adversely affected hundreds of victims across multiple states over a number of years, announced U.S. Attorney Mike Hurst and FBI Special Agent in Charge Christopher Freeze.
Adams will appear before U.S. Magistrate Judge Linda R. Anderson today at 2 p.m. for his initial appearance and arraignment on the Criminal Information.
Adams is charged with two counts of wire fraud involving a scheme to defraud investors, and one count of bank fraud, all in connection with a Ponzi scheme using Madison Timber Properties, LLC, a company wholly owned by Adams.
“Greed is not good. Greed drove this individual to lie, cheat and steal from fellow Mississippians, and led him to prey upon others outside our state, simply to personally benefit himself. While this may be one of the largest Ponzi scheme ever committed in our state, our citizens can rest assured that these criminal actions by this defendant sadly affecting so many people will be met with swift and certain justice. I commend the FBI special agents and prosecutor in this case for their diligent work. We will continue to pursue this case and all the evidence until all crimes have been discovered, all criminals have been brought to justice, and all victims have been assisted,” said U.S. Attorney Hurst.
As charged in the Criminal Information, beginning as early as 2011 and continuing through April 2018, Adams devised a scheme to defraud investors by soliciting millions of dollars of funds under false pretenses, failing to use the investors’ funds as promised, and converting investors’ funds to Adams’s own benefit without the knowledge of the investors. Instead of investing his clients’ money, Adams used the invested funds for his own personal benefit and for purposes other than those represented to investors, which also included making payments due and owing to other investors, thus perpetuating the Ponzi scheme. During the fraudulent scheme, Adams fraudulently obtained well in excess of one hundred million dollars from more than 250 investors located in at least 14 different states.
As part of his fraudulent scheme, Adams falsely represented to investors that Madison Timber Properties was in the business of buying timber rights from landowners and then selling the timber rights to lumber mills at a higher price. The object of the scheme was to cause individuals to invest in loans that purportedly were for the purpose of financing contracts for the purchase of timber rights to be sold to lumber mills at a higher price. However, neither Adams nor Madison Timber Properties had such timber rights or contracts with lumber mills, except in only a few instances.
Adams entered into fraudulent investment contracts with investors, most often in the form of promissory notes on behalf of Madison Timber Properties. The loans typically guaranteed investors an interest rate of 12-13%, with the interest to be repaid to investors over the course of 12-13 months. The monthly payments due on these promissory notes were typically due on either the first or the fifteenth of the month.
Adams created false documents causing investors to believe that their investments were secured by sufficient collateral from which they could recover all or part of their investment in the event that Madison Timber Properties defaulted on the loans. Specifically, Adams created false timber deeds purporting to be contracts conveying timber rights from landowners to Madison Timber Properties. Adams forged the signatures of landowners and also created false timber deeds purporting to convey timber rights from Madison Timber Properties to the investors. To further
lull investors, Adams had many of the documents notarized to make the investments appear legitimate. Adams also required the investors to agree not to record their timber deeds unless Madison Timber Properties defaulted on the loan agreement by failing to make a payment. In many instances, Adams also provided a “timber cruise summary” purporting to state the value of the timber located on a particular parcel of land. These “timber cruise summary” documents were also false and had been created by Adams to induce investors to give money to Adams under false or fraudulent pretenses.
Investors are requested to gather and retain any documents that they have concerning their investments with Madison Timber Properties, LLC and/or Arthur Lamar Adams. Information about developments in this investigation and further instructions on how to provide information to the pertinent authorities will be provided at the earliest possible date. The FBI and the U.S. Attorney’s Office will be reaching out to identified victims shortly.
We know that investors are anxious to learn whatever they can about the status of their investments and the assets of Madison Timber Properties, LLC. Although we cannot provide further details at this time, please be assured that all those involved are working diligently to investigate this matter and to locate and preserve assets that can be used for restitution to defrauded investors.
The case is being investigated by the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the Securities and Exchange Commission. The case is being prosecuted by Assistant United States Attorney Dave Fulcher.
93 comments:
One NE Jackson family eating another. Glad I have balcony and not front row seats for this show.
Pretty bold. One SOB orchestrating the largest Ponzi scheme ever in the state...somehow I doubt it. And on another note there are others parading around Madison and NE Jackson with 100s of LLCs in their name soliciting cash for funds that are spelled similarly and sound similar to larger legitimate funds...but I'm sure that's just a coincidence.
Wow....he thought his tracks were covered by securing the deeds with a promissory note....notarized at that...and requiring the borrowers to forego
recording the deed. At the end of the day...they owned nothing but a worthless promissory note.
Think Webstore designed and created the tools that were used in this scam, according to their very own website- http://thinkwebstore.com/madison-timber-properties/
Knew him in early 90's and did not take long to see the he bare watching as grandfather use to say
Guess what?
If it sounds too good to be true (12 % +), it probably is..................
Greed was on both sides of this trade.
@ May 1, 2018 at 1:21 PM
Yeah, and?
Are you the kind of person who thinks gun companies should be held liable when a maniac uses their product to commit murder?
Blame is on BillyBobGoodOlBoy Adams unless ThinkWebStore knew what he was up to.
You know, Primos is right next door and the web guys probably ate there while they were crafting the website. Maybe the restaurant should be liable as well. After all, they cooked the food that fed the dorks that built the site that pushed the shell that bolstered the scam that Lamar built. :-P
What an idiotic statement from Hurst. "Greed is not good." Wow. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Greed is what makes Mike Hurst get out of the bed each morning.
How much jail time is he looking at? What about his son in law and the sale reps?
Dang—- they took a lot of my money.
It’s hard to believe that someone with my education level and accomplishments could be hoodwinked by these opportunistic simpletons—- I am part of the most educated workforce in the state— and this happens to me!
I feel sorry for his grandkids. They're about to go from Jackson Academy to Ridgeland public schools. That's quite the change.
Dear Madison doctor:
They probably took it because you are such an humble person. Ya think?
There will be a house for sale at the CCJ and another one at Bridgewater right soon.
On the face of it, I find it hard to believe that someone would actually buy into a promise of 12%-13% annual guaranteed annual return. In an environment with prevailing bank rates of less than 1%, what kind of idiot would believe this horse crap?
Then I recalled a conversation with one of my kids where I expressed the same puzzlement about people who fall for the "Nigerian prince" email scams or the "IRS has filed suit against you" phone calls. My son pointed out that these email/phone scammers purposefully make their pitches somewhat farcical, because it actually weeds out the smarter targets and leaves them with the stupidist of the stupid who are a lot more likely to follow through and fork over some money.
And there you have it...
We don't really need the moral hi-tone admonitions from Hurst. His job ended when the investigation ended. We don't need him carrying on about greed and telling us what the outcome will be regarding prosecution (since he has no fucking clue as to the outcome). Can we, in a group monotone, say....Thank you Hurst for protecting our lives, our children and our homes and property? Without you we would be destined for ruination.
"Madison doctor" is obviously a parody. What reasonable doctor would think they are also financial experts, and if so, why would they be living in Madison first of all?
2:04. "Are you the kind of person who thinks gun companies should be held liable when a maniac uses their product to commit murder?"
I am. Sue the shit out of the assault attack weapon manufacturers of death. Sue the shit out of them. They remind me of the tobacco executive liars swearing under oath that they didn't believe nicotine was addictive some 30 or so years ago. SUE THEM PERSONALLY.
@2:30, where did you see or hear that his son in law was involved?
"They're about to go from Jackson Academy to Ridgeland public schools"
What, the headmaster doesn't have a fake PhD (and came from Hillary's Segregation Academy target)? The drugs are less plentiful? The snot noses drive cars besides hand me down BMWS?
Oh, I get you. Scary black kids, and they'll never make the team.
What a tragedy. Poor lil Brittney and Biff. They might have to compete in the real world. Even ride a bus!!?!?!?!??! Good Lord, spare them. Have mercy on their lily white formerly "upscale" souls!
Son in law has a respectable job and not involved. However there are sales reps and law firms. Hope E & O insurance is paid up. May be only pocket left.
If any of these investors had bothered to do any research at all they would have found the timber market has been down for years and there is no possible way to make 13% per year.
Dee Ray, what moral hightone bothers you so much? Frankly, I appreciate having public officials, especially in the judicial system, that give a damn. We certainly don't see that with many of the folks in that process at the county (state) level. I assume you would prefer the none moral tone that we get from our DA, or our AG? Or the moral guidance we get from our sheriff?
And no - Hurst's job is not over with the investigation. Actually, it has just started. Yes, Adams has given in to a Bill of Information. If he is the only one that is a target of this scheme (highly unlikely) there is still the prosecution, conviction, and sentencing. Evidently your correspondence course in legal process failed to include those sections of his job. Much less continuing the investigation and prosecution of any others that were in on the scam.
Would the last one leaving the room please turn out the lights-
I love the super successful rich guy who is always seeking investors, I haven't seen a small investment with enough meat on it to be worthwhile to just split so many ways. Also these guys that are always claiming to pay 10+ percent but don't have money to do their own deal.
6:06 - Re-read his statement. Hurst is obviously pandering to the low information crowd who can help elect him to office, when he decides which to run for. We don't need that level of braggadocios bull-shit from a man in a public-servant role.
I am so freaking disappointed in the quality of these posts. We get much better comments on tennis skirts and Kenny Stokes. This is big news folks. Come on man, somebody fess up. Or rat somebody out.
Sorry for this mans investors (and mostly for his family). If someone offered me that rate of return and I didn’t have big questions, shame on me. Same deal with Stanford. Lots of really smart people trusted credible sources there too (many who never intended to defraud anybody- just drank the Kool Aid.)
It’s okay to trust somebody- but if they claim bigger returns than anybody else give it lots and LOTS of scrutiny.
Lamar is no dummy. I am sure he knew this day would come and he has taken care to take care of the right people. He will be the wealthiest “broke”ex con you will ever see.
Feds have been busy in MS lately. There are a number of people in the state that will soon be indicted on rigging foreclosures. If not for the Feds none of this stuff would ever be prosecuted. Unfortunately it is white collar crime which rarely gets a stiff penalty.
@3:50 wants to know who falls for this 12% interest in a 1% environment. Or who falls for the Nigerian relative. It's gullible folks like the ones who bought snake oil from the Reverend Freeze. And the ones who are now putting him in the pulpit to tell his story. Knowing good and dang well that ole Freeze has not changed, hasn't taken responsibility, and that there is much more, and much worse, that he is guilty of.
White Collar crime " rarely gets a stuff penalty". Really? Go ask Bernie Madoff or Bernie Ebbers or Jeffrey Skilling.
8:47 do tell!
Rigging foreclosures in ms?
"We were responsible for the largest Ponzi scheme in the state of Mississippi."
-- Chris & Charles Evans, 2011
"Hold my beer!"
--Lamar Adams, 2018
@754pm- agreed. To paraphrase Carl Sagan, "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." Though let's not denigrate the victims by implying they're automatically dunces. Con artists are skilled manipulators of exploiting human vulnerabilities and trust. Even the most streetwise among us can be tricked despite our better judgment.
I feel badly for the investors. I suppose they didn't talk to people even tangentially related to the timber business. Lumber mills across the state have been shutting down. It is hard to get double-digit returns from an industry that has been in a decade-long (with no end in sight) recession.
If everyone knew how many plainly unsophisticated, financially ignorant blue collar retirees lost their life savings at age 60+ because of white collar Jackson stock brokers working for supposedly reputable firms, Names:Fred Brister, Hilary Zimmerman, Steve Wyatt, Logan Phillips Jr., Kane Savell, etc.,etc.and who received fake help from the biased-to-the-rich Secretary of State (do not elect this man to anything-please) and his truly crummy staff, the level of shock would be extremely high.
Well folks, the fix is in, Judge for life Linda Anderson gave him bond of $25,000. That’s pocket money for him—and Collette got more than that (wink)...but not to worry, his Land Rover will have to be parked at Club Fed while Lamar plays golf with Bernie Made-off... thanks for nothing federal judge for life Linda... wink wink
Yes, just put in Google: Madison Timber SEC Form D
Not pretty.
Pretty bold. One SOB orchestrating the largest Ponzi scheme ever in the state
Nope, that title goes to Bernie Ebbers of WorldCom fame.
Bernie almost pulled off purchasing Sprint for $112 Billion
Always amazed to see how white men are able to wiggle their way in and rip off their own people at this rate.
This is life altering robbery.
It's like someone said earlier, lil pookie in the hood will rob you for $100 and hurt your pockets for a day. But Lamar Adams, Bernie Ebbers, Bernie Madoff, and Donald Trump will rob your whole family and affect your wealth for generations. But people will be more worried about lil pookie, than the fellas in suit and ties.
People, keep your head on a swivel at all times. Whether you are in west Jackson or the confines of Lost Rabbit, wolves come in all colors.
Whenever the name "Lamar" is involved in Mississippi, rest assured there's a stink.
1:38 a.m.: Thanks for your brilliant theory. What you don't seem to understand is that we don't give much thought to future emotional/mental pain when we consider risk. But, we do worry about the immediate physical pain Lil Dookie will inflict on us when he steals our bicycle or trolling motor.
We're willing to risk the former, since we give it no thought. But, nobody wants to be gut-shot or have an ear sliced off. While our heads are 'swiveling' we fear Lil Dookie.
@ 6:46am
And that's why people like you are so easy to rip off.
Keep on doing what you're doing bubba.
Hope Hurst and his cowboys can look at the billion dollar Ponzi scheme in higher education.
What Bernie did was not a ponzi. Far from it. He built a legit business of massive proportion. Then they tried to cover up a downturn and got caught.
A ponzi has no underlying actual business. Its fake from day 1.
Both bad, but at least know what you are talking about.
We don't need that level of braggadocios bull-shit from a man in a public-servant role.
Sooooooooo, you also have a problem when Jimmy Hood does the same thing?
Mississippi have been suffering through Hood's braggadocio for far, far longer.
Worldcom wasn't a Ponzi. It was a real business with real assets that still operates today under another name.
Who is Lamar Adams..what is his background?? What did he do prior to this?
#FREEBernieEbbers
He has been Timberpimp since early 90's
If your attorneys believed they could dabble in and outsmart the timber industry bringing in a static double digit rate of return, you're being represented by the wrong firm. Seriously, timber prices are all over the map. There are times it would have cost me money to cut timber and bring it to the mill. No one thought to check the prices the mills were paying?
It was either extreme hubris or fraud that led attorneys to participate in this.
to may 1 at 10:55.......all your wannabe badass talk is only exceeded by your stupidity. linda anderson is a federal magistrate, not a article 3 , federal judge. i guess you were out running your mouth and missed that lesson in your do-it-youself class on federal criminal practice. stick to talking BS. you would never make it in any profession, except maybe a ponzi scam.
to may 1 at 10;32...... I FEEL BADLY FOR THE INVESTORS....... come on man, anybody stupid and greedy enough to fall for a scam like this deserves to be ripped off. if stupidity was a crime , you could indict all the "investors", who now claim to be "victims". they are should be referred to as pidgeons that got plucked.
The Complaint alleges he invested some of the stolen money in real estate developments in Oxford and Starkville. Does anyone know what those developments consist of? I hope his victims can reach to those assets to recover their losses.
KF- re your audio post: could you briefly explain what waiving an indictment does? Is it used by CD attorneys to get reduced charges, etc? But really, is it an "indictment" in-and-of itself- almost a concession by the defendant?
Does waiving indictment mean he's fixing to squeal like a pig, boy?
30 years in federal criminal practice as a defense lawyer here.......if this scammer has agreed to waive indictment and proceed under a bill of information , that means but one thing . hes going to cooperate with the feds and sing like a canary. everybody involved in this is a target. heads gonna roll.
@9:14 nailed it.
What "attorney" can outsmart a market that professionals who devote 100% of their time to cannot? Just because someone is an attorney does not mean they are smart. Just because someone is slick does not mean they are smart.
to 9:51...... an indictment is returned by a grand jury. a bill of information is drafted by the us attorney and seven the same purpose , except that the defendant has to agree to waive indictment. it streamlines the process so the defendant can start cooperating ASAP.
to 9:46 am..... another SEC perttyboy who cant resist attempting to tie chicken manure college football to even crime there is.
even if this was a legitimate investment , by definition what you are investing in is the commodities market. timber is a commodity right up there with pork bellies, eggs and wheat. and anybody stupid enough to bet on commodities deserves to get burned.
I have known Lamar for many years and I feel like he is cooperating only to try to save his family as much trouble as he can. I don't know what all he has spent the money on but both of his children have most likely benefited from his ill gotten gains and maybe he wants to keep the collateral damage to a minimum. I am sure that he has fooled a lot of his own family and I am sure a lot of them are hurt, embarrassed and angry.
I noticed the disclosure in the complaint about diverting funds to investments in Oxford and Starkville as well. That's disappointing - taking investors' money designated for buying timber and diverting it to other real estate deals? How lame is that? What ever happened to good ole hookers and blow????
A New York Times article says that some Baker Donelson attorneys invested money in Madison Timber.
As others have posted, this should have been recognized as an obvious rip off to anyone who knows anything about the timber market whether they are sophisticated investors or not. Adams probably claimed the recent hurricane devastation reduced supply and increased prices. I heard that false claim tossed around after Katrina and Rita.
this is how you spot a lamar adams. he will be driving a 90,000$ extended cab pickup, festooned with stickers that say YETI, COSTA, SALT LIFE, and some SEC university. he will be wearing his 100$ columbia or patagonia fishing shirt, untucked to cover his big belly, along with his costa sunglasses. his truck will be parked at ticos, doe's eat place, or table 100 every evening about 5pm while he packs his face on booze and steak all paid for by his investors. here in mississippi god must love those types cause he makes so many of them.
How in the hell is WorldCom not considered a Ponzi Scheme?
It was a real business with real assets that still operates today under another name.
A Ponzi scheme doesn't have to start off as a fake business, nor have illegitimate intent in the beginning - its the actions of the individuals or companies when they are attempting to gain financial investors and whether or not to gain those new investors via legitimate financial reports.
When WorldCom went public they were cooking the hell out of the books to show the operational costs were down and their financial holdings were in great shape, and that's what made it a Ponzi scheme.
$90k truck, show me one.
$100 Columbia shirt, Again, show me one.
I'm not saying you're 100% wrong, but you're not 100% correct either.
@ 11:03 am, a Ponzi scheme is a fake business that uses new investor money to repay old investor money. WorldCom committed financial statement/financial reporting fraud. It was a real business that got caught "cooking the books".
11:23,
Stop being cheap and go buy a new F250. It rings up at 85k.
We don't buy Columbia shirts so you may have a point there.
Many people who are naive with respect to business have come to use the the term "Ponzi scheme" to describe any business that collapses quickly and destroys a significant amount of capital. To 11.38 AM's point, the original and accurate definition is "a form of fraud in which belief in the success of a nonexistent enterprise is fostered by the payment of quick returns to the first investors from money invested by later investors." The key here is "nonexistent enterprise."
11.03 AM, you are correct in stating that a Ponzi scheme doesn't have to start off as a fake business. I suspect that Lamar Adams' and Bernie Madoff's ventures were both legitimate businesses (or at least legitimate business plans) early in their lifecycles. However, at some point the underlying business either completely went away or became so small relative to the amount of new capital required to pay off prior investors, that it was de facto a non-existent enterprise. In any case, they devolved into a scheme to take new money to pay off old investments in order to survive.
WorldCom sold telecommunication services right up to the point that it went bankrupt. It simply didn't sell enough telecom services to pay all of its obligations. There was always a legitimate, underlying enterprise, much of which still exists within Verizon. The fact that there was something to sell after its collapse - Verizon payed $7.6 billion for WorldCom (which had taken the MCI name by that time) in 2005 - proves that WorldCom was not a Ponzi scheme.
In the scope of one week it appears Ridgeland has become criminal ground zero for Jackson big shots with their big law firms.
May 2, 2018 at 10:52 AM is correct on all but the PFG Boneheads that these fatasses love to wear. They cost around $30 at Bass Pro (where all Mis'sippi Good Ol' Boys do their clothes shoppin').
But you forgot Sunday, where the Lamar types can be found at Pine Lake or First Baptist or whatever megachurch they attend, so they look like good Christians while pressing flesh and making deals between Sunday school and church. That's when they wear their best pair of Dockers and an SEC-logo polo shirt. Gotta get dressed up for church!
11:03
Your ignorance is pathetic. A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investing scam promising high rates of return with little risk to investors. The Ponzi scheme generates returns for older investors by acquiring new investors. This is similar to a pyramid scheme in that both are based on using new investors' funds to pay the earlier backers. For both Ponzi schemes and pyramid schemes, eventually there isn't enough money to go around, and the schemes unravel.
WorldCom was improper/illegal accounting practices of a publicly traded company. A real company that had revenue and expenses.
All ponzi schemes are frauds, not all frauds are ponzi schemes, therefore.....
12.38 PM,
On the Sunday wardrobe, you forgot the fleece vest. Putting the fleece vest on over the SEC-logo polo shirt automatically makes the ensemble a "dress outfit" suitable for church or a nice evening out at Tico's with the wife.
My fleece vest doesn't have anything to do with ponzi schemes. Don't go a mess'n now.
Do those ankle bracelets come with SEC logos on them?
What a disgrace. I hope there is justice.
Ha ha ha! I love the comments about the attire of the typical Mississippi bubba. I've seen guys wearing those Columbia fishing shirts at funerals... seriously. Costa del Mars are the official sunglasses of fat douchebags everywhere. Just watch the WSOP where those dingleberries think they're James Bond wearing those shades at a poker table. Yeti coolers are the ULTIMATE expressions of dumbf**kery. Not only are you paying $400 for a Coleman cooler, your advertising to the world that you paid $400 for a Coleman cooler.
This thread is priceless!
(Actually, it cost $100,000,000)
Agree with @6:12 Great entertainment!
I don't even know this fool but he sounds like a piece of work!
I heard that some 25 years ago Lamar Adams Ridgeland home was sprayed with bullets when he was hawking oil and gas deals. Too bad he did not change his ways..$100 million is a lot of money. This dummy did not even try to make this deal work. Just out and out theft. Hard to believe this con was not well known by his friends family associates!
to 11:23 am.......pay a visit to any major truck dealership and buffalo peak outfitters and see for yourself.
@6:12 sounds like they are broke.
For those of you paying attention, the entire section of the Butler Snow website listed as Wealth Management has been removed. It showed the list of bad actors selling these investments. I’m sure it will return with the heading “ Wealth Mismanagement”. Guess the crisis management folks from up North are doing their job...
For those of you paying attention, the entire section of the Butler Snow website listed as Wealth Management has been removed. It showed the list of bad actors selling these investments. I’m sure it will return with the heading “ Wealth Mismanagement”. Guess the crisis management folks from up North are doing their job...
As a longtime client of BS it has appeared to me that the seemingly lack of moral character of attorneys has increased.
New York Times just reported that Roger Wicker fell for the scheme and lost money... That's interesting.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
New York Times just reported that Roger Wicker fell for the scheme and lost money... That's interesting.
May 3, 2018 at 4:46 PM
UNBELIEVABLE!!!
The company got farm subsidies here. And owed LA tax $$$.
http://www.rev.state.la.us/LawsPolicies/C02014-0471-JH%20Lamar%20Adams%20v%20LDR.pdf
https://farm.ewg.org/persondetail.php?custnumber=B06792702
https://www.sec.gov/litigation/complaints/2018/comp24129.pdf
Thanks, Kingfish. We would be so in the dark without your blog. It's clear Adams is a crook and used money to finance his own and his family's lifestyle. But it goes further - there are others who benefited and betrayed people who trusted them. Your blog is pretty much the only place where truth is being spoken. Adams needs to pay/repay for all he scammed, and the others should. If MS doesn't require the repayment of illegal assets that's a shame. Anyone who benefited from this crooked scheme should pay it back
The biggest, long running, Ponzi scheme is social security.
CL article shows huge commissions paid to the promoters. Do,we know how much Billings, Alexander et al were paid individually and will they have to pay those back to the victims?
To those of you talking about this mans family and posting information about his grandkids, you should be ashamed of yourselves. His family had no clue, they were just as blindsided as everyone else. The family did NOTHING wrong so posting personal information online is absolutely horrendous. No one is defending this man, but let he who is without sin cast the first stone. I pray for your souls.
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