Jackson Ward 3 Councilman Kenneth I. Stokes was not too happy when he found out the city of Jackson can not appeal JXN Water's 12% rate increase to the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals yesterday. Using common vernacular, he said something about "talking about some bullshit."
U.S. District Judge Henry Wingate approved JXN Water's 12% rate increase on February 23. Mr. Stokes and other Council members opposed the rate increase. The Ward 3 Councilman wanted to discuss an appeal of the rate increase in federal court but did not like the answer he heard.
City Attorney Drew Martin opened the discussion. He said he provided a legal memorandum to the Council on the matter of an appeal. A motion to appeal the rate increase was made at the last Council meeting but it died for a lack of a second. Mr. Martin informed the deadline for the appeal passed. Mr. Stokes vehemently protested:
It did not die by vote. It died by lack of a second. It must die by vote. Someone has to vote it down then you can’t bring it back. Now, I got this memo... and it just seems as though there's no concern about poor people and older people in this city going without water. I think that is sinful.
But these citizens deserve to have someone fighting for them to have water in this city. It’s a scam. How in the world people having a hundred-thousand-dollar water bill? You can't do it. The mathematics do not add up. We got to fight to make sure there's no increase of 12% on these water bills. They already can't pay these bills. And if you add more money to it, they surely cannot pay it. You have more citizens in this city without water. They have had water all their lives. Now Jackson Water, who won't be here, will be gone, is going to do anything they can to prevent people from having a necessity. You don’t need lights, you don’t need gas, but you need water to live. How can your child go to school with another child who has no water in his home? Can't bathe. This city needs to take the leadership role. Let's appeal this to the Fifth Circuit. And I know that the Fifth Circuit will support citizens in Jackson having water.
Mr. Stokes concluded by advocating appealing all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court if need be.
The City Attorney replied his office would file an appeal if so directed by the City Council. However, the City Council did not approve an appeal at the last Council meeting despite there being a motion on the table to do so. Mr. Stokes was correct in stating the Council did not reject the motion but unfortunately for him, the thirty-day deadline for filing a notice of appeal passed.
Upon questioning by Ward 2 Councilwoman Tina Clay, Mr. Martin said using outside attorneys for an appeal would cost at least $50,000.
Mr. Stokes started reading from the memo before the City Attorney cut him off, warning him it should be discussed in executive session as reading it in public would waive attorney-client privilege (See 5:07 in transcript posted below). The Councilman erupted:
Well, you gave us a memo and I’m just reading part of it saying "for the following reasons, an appeal is not recommended." Now you’re trying to say, "well, we don’t mind filing a lawsuit." You said it’s not recommended and that will confuse some of these council members. Because it’s vulnerable. It’s vulnerable. Citizens in the United States of America deserve to have water. So why can’t we have water in Jackson, Mississippi?
Ward 2 Councilwoman asked what the city could do since the appeal deadline passed. Mr. Martin replied:
we can create our own ordinance that creates a municipal water authority that could govern the system in the future and provide a transfer from Jackson Water to that system instead of one that’s created by the state. We can fight to get more financial accountability from Jackson Water, which this court, Judge Wingate, has indicated he is going to do currently.
HB# 1677 states the city can lease the water/sewer system to the Jackson Metro Water Authority but is not required to do so. If the Authority leased the system, it would assume $120 million in water/sewer debt from Jackson. However, it appears Mr. Martin is suggesting the city does not have to go that route but can instead create its own utility district.
Mr. Stokes withdrew his motion but not before he exclaimed "Talking about some bullshit."
Jackson Mayor John Horhn issued the following statement:
The City of Jackson would like to clarify news reports of a decision not to appeal the district court’s order regarding JXN Water rates. The City did not “miss” any deadline to appeal. The City Council was fully informed by the Horhn Administration of their options and made a deliberate choice not to pursue an appeal.
For additional context, a member of the council placed an item related to this matter on the Council agenda on March 10. The issue was tabled for further discussion during executive session, where both the Administration and the Council thoroughly reviewed the March 25 appeal deadline. The matter was reintroduced at the March 24 meeting, where the motion did not receive a second.
Bullshit indeed.
Transcript. (Created using Gemini Pro)
[00:17] City Attorney Drew Martin: City Attorney Drew Martin. This was an item that first came up from the council two meetings ago, I believe. There was significant discussion about the matter. Our office provided a memo to the council subsequent to that. It came up at the last meeting and was motioned but died for lack of a second. The deadline for the appeal, which was in the previous discussions, has since passed. There's not an appeal that we could take at this point.
[00:45] Council President: All right.
[00:46] Councilman Stokes: Mr. President?
[00:47] Council President: Yes, sir.
[00:47] Councilman Stokes: It did not die by vote. It died by lack of a second. It must die by vote. Someone has to vote it down then you can’t bring it back. Now, I got this memo... and it just seems as though there's no concern about poor people and older people in this city going without water. I think that is sinful. And in this memo, we try to make it seem as though the federal judge is going to get mad and that he’s not a professional. The federal judge went and graduated from Brinkley... lived in Virdun Addition. He understands people need water. If this legal department can’t handle the job, then we need to get some other lawyers. But these citizens deserve to have someone fighting for them to have water in this city. It’s a scam. How in the world people having a hundred-thousand-dollar water bill? You can't do it. The mathematics do not add up. We got to fight to make sure there's no increase of 12% on these water bills. They already can't pay these bills. And if you add more money to it, they surely cannot pay it. You have more citizens in this city without water. They have had water all their lives. Now Jackson Water, who won't be here, will be gone, is going to do anything they can to prevent people from having a necessity. You don’t need lights, you don’t need gas, but you need water to live. How can your child go to school with another child who has no water in his home? Can't bathe. This city needs to take the leadership role. Let's appeal this to the Fifth Circuit. And I know that the Fifth Circuit will support citizens in Jackson having water. And if they do not, as you say in your memo, then it’s time for the city of Jackson to go to the United States Supreme Court. We have those rights to appeal this decision. It’s not illegal, it’s fighting for the citizens. They pay taxes, they deserve water. Thank you.
[03:50] Council President: Thank you. Mr. Foote.
[03:52] Councilman Foote: Thank you, Mr. President. Councilman Stokes answered one of my questions which was... where does the appeal go to since it’s the federal judge that’s running the water system right now or overseeing the water system? And so it goes to the Fifth Circuit. I don’t know that the city’s prepared to go appeal this and what would outside attorneys cost to appeal this to the Fifth Circuit?
[04:15] Drew Martin: Let me say two things on that. First of all, this office and myself personally did not refuse to appeal this matter. If we are directed to by the governing authorities... in fact, we made it very clear we stand ready and capable to do that. We are arguing cases before the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals currently and we will continue to do so on behalf of the city. To your second question as to what it would cost: if you started today and ran through it and you had a reputable law firm, if you came in under $40,000 to $50,000 you’d be doing great. I suspect it would be significantly more.
[04:54] Councilman Foot: Thank you.
[04:55] Council President: Mr. Stokes.
[04:56] Councilman Stokes: Thank you. The office of the City Attorney has reviewed... (Stokes starts reading City Attorney's memo)
[05:07] Drew Martin: Councilman, I hate to interrupt, but I do want to say... I would strongly discourage any of the clients, being the governing authorities, from waiving their attorney-client privilege on any issue. If we want to discuss the legal merits of my advice, then we should go into executive session, as we have done twice on this already, I believe. And I’m happy to provide—I can continue to explain. There are pros and cons and you’re right, we have a legal right to appeal, but the governing authorities did not direct us to do so.
[05:39] Councilman Stokes: Well, you gave us a memo and I’m just reading part of it saying "for the following reasons, an appeal is not recommended." Now you’re trying to say, "well, we don’t mind filing a lawsuit." You said it’s not recommended and that will confuse some of these council members. Because it’s vulnerable. It’s vulnerable. Citizens in the United States of America deserve to have water. So why can’t we have water in Jackson, Mississippi? If you're poor or old, those are the people who are not receiving water in Jackson. Today they're without water. When they cut the water off, it’s off for now on, forever. And you don’t think we supposed to fight for these citizens? That’s why we down here.
[06:30] Councilwoman Clay: So you said the cost would be between 40 and 50?
[06:35] Drew Martin: If we hired outside counsel, I suspect that it would be a minimum of that, yes. It would not cost this office any money to do it other than filing fees, which would be a few hundred dollars.
[06:46] Councilwoman Clay: So 40 to 50 or your office, and we will affect the whole population in the city of Jackson?
[06:51] Drew Martin: I’m not sure I understood the question.
[06:55] Councilwoman Clay: If we file an appeal, everybody that drink water in the city of Jackson and pays for water, we will affect them no matter what. If we win, they decrease their bill by 12% or whatever the decision is.
[07:07] Drew Martin: Conceivably. So, again, two things. One, I need to remind you again that the deadline for filing the appeal has passed.
[07:16] Councilwoman Clay: Yeah, but then you said we could file something in addition? Didn’t Mr. Stokes just say that?
[07:20] Drew Martin: No, no, no. What I was saying is the appeal that was being discussed... that had been discussed previously and we provided you the deadline for when we had to do it. At the first meeting that we discussed it, we said we still got time for one more meeting. We had that meeting and that’s when the vote was taken—excuse me, vote was not taken, the motion was raised and there was no second. So that deadline for an appeal has passed. But to answer your question: yes, if an appeal were successful before the Fifth Circuit, there are multiple different options that the Fifth Circuit could take in our favor. If they did that, the most likely result I believe, if they ruled in our favor, would be to send it back to the district court for Judge Wingate to do additional fact findings to decide whether his opinion was correct or not. They could just reverse his opinion and say no rate increase is permitted here. There’s probably some other options they’d have available too, but those would be two of their options.
[08:14] Councilwoman Clay: So my question is, can we do something at this point? Even though the deadline has passed, what can we do?
[08:19] Drew Martin: We can do a lot, we just can’t appeal that rate increase.
[08:22] Councilwoman Clay: I understand we can’t appeal. I’m saying what can we do? And I’m not raising my voice, I’m not upset, I’m just saying I understand point blank we cannot appeal. So where are we in the current litigation, in the current lawsuit?
[08:34] Drew Martin: The rate increase will go into effect. What we need to be working on continues to be how to transition this system out of Jackson Water. Whether that’s through a state-created entity, whether that’s through a city-created entity, we need to work to get Jackson Water transferred out and have the city get as strong a voice as it can have on what happens to the system next, because we will have the voice as to what the rates are at that point.
[09:00] Councilwoman Clay: It's already been transferred out, okay?
[09:02] Drew Martin: It has not.
[09:03] Councilwoman Clay: Well, technically, they’ve already voted and approved it, okay?
[09:06] Drew Martin: No, no, no. They didn’t vote to transfer. No, ma'am.
[09:10] Councilwoman Clay: They didn’t vote to transfer? That was our tool, that's our next step.
[09:14] Drew Martin: The state created one entity that is a possibility. It is not the only possibility and the system doesn’t automatically go to that system.
[09:23] Councilwoman Clay: Maybe I’m not asking the question right, okay? So I’m going to say this: what can we do based on what Mr. Stokes just asked you? I know the deadline is passed, I know the legislation has passed, I know all these things. What can we do at this point to address what he just asked you?
[09:39] Drew Martin: To fight for our citizens? To fight for our citizens, what we can do: we can create city legislation, we can create our own ordinance that creates a municipal water authority that could govern the system in the future and provide a transfer from Jackson Water to that system instead of one that’s created by the state. We can fight to get more financial accountability from Jackson Water, which this court, Judge Wingate, has indicated he is going to do currently. We need to have more information and transparency about the contracts and the expenses that Jackson Water incurs to find out whether any rate increase was appropriate and to fight any future one that is not appropriate.
[10:19] Councilwoman Clay: So this $40,000 we can’t spend right now because there's no need to spend?
[10:23] Drew Martin: That’s correct. Hiring an outside counsel to appeal something past the deadline would be ineffective.
[10:30] Councilman Stokes: Mr. President... when we first brought this item up, we brought it up timely. From there they said, "let’s give them this time." That’s what makes the people think that there's trickery taking place. But see, your water on. You're not worried about paying your water bill. And you have no sensitivity toward people who are going without water, even today. So now you’re saying, "oh the appeal time is over with." You sent us this piece of paper—why you ain't send us a piece of paper saying well we only have so long for the appeal, so we need to do something timely? We could have had a special meeting and everything else. Where the 800 million you say we could find... if they sent 800 million dollars in here, why there's no accountability? Where is it at? Where is it spent? That’s what make people think this some kind of game, Mr. President. But I’m ready to vote, Mr. President. And I know if he saying the time deadline, I know legally there ain't nothing we can do if the time deadline... but what kind of lawyer allow the time deadline to expire on a city council? What the hell is that?
[12:03] Council President: All right. Going to go ahead and call for the vote.
[12:06] Councilman Stokes: No, no, you can’t call for the vote if the time has expired.
[12:09] Council President: Well, we gotta dispose of it.
[12:12] Councilman Stokes: I hold it, Mr. President. I hold my item. I withdraw my item.
[12:16] Councilman: I withdraw my second.
[12:18] Council President: All right, thank you.
[12:20] Councilman Stokes: (Muttering) Talking about some bullshit...
[12:22] Council President: Mr. Stokes. Colleagues, I’m going to... we need some positivity here. We’re going to go ahead down to these proclamations...
46 comments:
The whole group of Councilmen & women couldn't run successfully a lemonade stand much less a city. Jackson is lost & will not recover. Ever.
They can't create a water authority on
their own. DOJ, EPA, MSDH are all involved in this. They would have to
all agree and the court. Jxn Water puts
out where the money is going. The city
just ignores it. And too the city agreed
Jxn Water can raise the rates. They signed off on it.
The president of the US drops F bombs all the time, no one wears proper fitting clothes, much less suits, most leaders today are crass trying to fit in with their lowest class constituents. Its a disgusting and vile thing thats happened in our country that is only going to get worse
Geesh. Where did Kennef get his law degree? Out of a box of Corn Flakes?
Mr. Martin needs to read the order the
city signed off on.
If they read his reports they would know where the money goes. Money
has strict guidelines.
The biggest bullshit in all of this post is this - "However, it appears Mr. Martin is suggesting the city does not have to go that route but can instead create its own utility district." What in the hell are these idiots in the City doing? Why, why, why didn't the Legislature with HB 1677 force the City to lease the water system to the regional authority?
LOL 90% of the city has fantastic water and this hippo is pissed because there is no more freeloading, no matter if you're old or poor or whatever. Suck it up and pay yo bills like everyone else!! Kudos JXN Water for getting it fixed! Raise the rates!
I believe the state supercedes the municipality as far as who gets to create an authority. Coulda-shoulda-woulda, but didn't.
"We must have free water for our voters"
Kennuf gonna Kennuf. Waste a quarter million (that's more likely what it would cost) in tax revenue appealing Wingate's order.
See how it works-
Every constituent in Stokes Ward will vote for him.
A chicken in every pot; free water in every tap.
Things are returning to normal from that twilight zone where Stokes was the voice of reason
You have to at least break even on the water. Take all the old balances on individuals and make them pay $10 more a month on their bill. Remember Kenny, this is not free, that's what got the town in this problem to begin with.
Sympathize with Drew. Representing a public body, who can only act through its minutes, etc., can be a headache in situations like this. The council has to give him the authority to appeal. The council doesn't authorize despite the request being made. Then, Stokes acts like none of the previous meetings happened, didn't read the memo, and alleges not appealing is Drew's fault. Practicing law can be fun if it wasn't for clients trying to ruin it.
The citizens of Jackson are actually paying for the shitty decisions they make in the voting booth. boo hoo
Well Mr. Stokes, I am assuming you were not present to second the motion when it originally came up, so that is on you, and reflects you not being able to perform the duties of your elected office......AND, then there is the simple fact, that you have been a councilman for a very long time, so by default, you are part of the reason we are here today, b/c yet again, you did not carefully and dutifully carry out the duties of your elected office, so frankly, your political theatre act is now really getting old
Dear Governor,
Please listen closely to what Drew Martin advised the city council about establishing its own utility district. There is your justification, Mr. Governor. Declare a special session and force the gonad-less legislature to mandate what must be done but what will NOT be done if left to the idiocy of these fools at the City of Jackson.
Signed,
The Non-City-of-Jackson Resident Taxpayers of the State of Mississippi
Maybe he can throw a brick at the water department to get them to change their minds. Flashes back to when he thought throwing bricks at the popo was a good idea.
The City Council was given notice twice and Stokes is STILL blaming the attorney. That blows me away plus the fact that the city council should not have to be reminded of a deadline. It's so embarrassing. So embarrassing.
What's sadder is that the city attorney said council was notified of appeal deadline date prior to the date. Perhaps it's time to engage Sylvan Learning Center for assistance with reading and cognitive functions. The way things are headed in this forgotten third world dysfunctional city, Tate is going to send the former sane individuals mental health vouchers. It's unreal...you can't make this shit up!
It’s not the government’s job to provide free stuff or pay for stuff for the poor and elderly. That’s the church’s responsibility. Can’t pay your bill, ask your church. Your church can’t afford it? Tell the congregation to read their bible and step up their giving. You don’t think you have enough money to give extra? Quit voting for the government to take your money and go wasting it on crap.
Stokes went to Thurgood Marshall. I knew it before I looked it up, but wanted to confirm. Same as Lamumba.
Word of the Day: "Trickeration"
I am so tired of some folks screaming for free water. We know why you're doing it, to ensure friends get favors and you get votes. Now just shut up.
9:57 am, excellent comment. Hopefully Governor has a clue on this.
Why does the city ad the city council want this dog Back? They sat on their hands and did nothing watching the water system collapse around them.
Councilman Stokes needs to pull up his pants and buy a clue.
Members on the council had no problems passing a 1% tax increase on all businesses located in the city, but have an issue with ratepayers paying more for water?????
Mr. Martin should have told council that other parties will have to sign off
on who gets this water. He knew better.
10:43 for the win.
Boom.
It would be interesting to see the general demographics of Ward 3 inhabitants with regard to population, income, age, education, and employment. Then, further broken-down into 1) pay water bills, 2) don't pay water bills 3) bypass meters or on a special list and therefore don't receive water bills, and 4) have received $100k water bills.
This is what Jackson leaders do. They talk, argue, make speeches, issue demands, criticize others, file lawsuits....they talk the talk, but lack the actual know-how to keep things working. Look at what happens in other towns. The people in other towns who are holding the wrenches and having the knowledge and experience to operate essential services are not forced out by city hall and their jobs given to unqualified cronies. Leaders in other cities understand that essential services don't operate by themselves. You must put competent people in the right places because if you don't you become Jackson, Mississippi.
For many years Jackson has been a city with their hand out. For some reason they think other people should pay for the things that they want. Our government has started something that has gone out of control. For years they have been giving the people of Jackson free homes, free food, and free utilities. Look at what it has done to Jackson.
Stokes made a boo boo?
Because of potential contract $teering and palm grea$ing.
Jackson: The city that's always a day late and a dollar short.
11:49 There's nobody on a special list
since Jxn Water came to town.
Reading this made my head spin. No one wants to be held accountable but everyone wants to complain about not getting a handout.
Stokes is such a fuckup. Half the time he doesn't show up and misses shit and now he wants to blame what he missed on someone else. He is a total waste of space (a LOT of space).
“And I know that the Fifth Circuit will support citizens in Jackson having water.”
They’ll support the need for a functioning water system, but I doubt they’ll reverse a district judge who found a rate increase is necessary to keep the system functioning.
Stokes is mad because he put something on the agenda AND DIDNT EVEN SHOW UP
Stokes is a certified oxygen thief.
I have many friends and family in Jackson. Never heard anyone complain about a water bill. Also I’d like to see that $100,000 dollar water bill!
The City of Jackson seem to be a litigious bunch. Wonder how mych has been spent on legal fees for the past 10 years?
4:37 - Nope. I get it. I pay it. My water works fine. I'm glad the increase went through. I believe in paying my way in this life.
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