Sunday, July 31, 2016

Is it worth it to become a lawyer?

Local attorney Ken Walley provided this column that appeared elsewhere. 

I was aghast at the article I read by Mr. Jimmie Gates last week entitled “Is Getting a Law Degree Still Lucrative?

Mr. Gates promotes sales pitches that law schools have been promoting for years to convince kids (usually 20 or 21 when they apply) to spend hundreds of thousands of federal student loan (read: taxpayer) dollars on a degree that there is little demand for. For instance, the article quotes Interim Dean Deborah Bell, who said that there are a lot of careers that a law degree can lead to. I have great respect for Prof. Bell, but she is wrong. A law degree does one thing: it qualifies you to sit for the Mississippi bar exam. It does not qualify you to do anything else.


It is true that law graduates go into non-legal fields, but most of them entered law school wanting to practice law. They seek employment in other fields because they can't find jobs as lawyers. It is also true that there is an unmet demand for legal services for deserving Mississippians, but these people are not under-served because of a lawyer shortage. They are under-served because they have no money, and the budgets of legal-aid organizations are almost non-existent. A new crop of law graduates with six-figure student loan debts aren't going to be able to spend time helping the poor. Sallie Mae doesn't care how much pro bono work you do.

According to the Law School Transparency Project, only 48% of the Ole Miss class of 2015 had full-time jobs that require a law degree nine months after graduation and 28.4% were underemployed. MC's scores are little better. Half of Prof. Bell's students will never practice law full-time a day in their lives. More will drop out within a few years. I would imagine that 48% would be a failing score for one of her students, and it should be a failing score for the law school as well. But at least the tuition is relatively low at Ole Miss, and they have mostly maintained their academic standards. At Mississippi College, even though the first-year class size shrunk over 40% since 2010, 75% of the 2015 first-year class had a below-average LSAT score, and the median GPA was below a 3.0. Students with low GPAs and low LSATs are at high risk for failing the bar exam. I know many fine lawyers that have come out of MC in the past, but I'm not going to mince words: right now, MC Law is taking significant numbers of students that they know will never pass the bar exam to get their tuition dollars. 78% of the Class of 2014 borrowed and took out an average of $130,700 in federally-guaranteed student loans to attend MC. That's great for the school, but with compounding interest and low wages, a young lawyer could easily pay well over $200,000 for the degree.

Most lawyers in this state make well below $100,000 per year, and half of new graduates don't get jobs as lawyers. For the majority that don't get high-paying jobs, their law degree will not represent the ticket to riches. It'll represent the home they don't buy, the retirement they can't take, or the children they chose not to have. There is no bankruptcy protection for student loans. A minority will find law school lucrative, but most graduates will not see any financial benefit for the time, money, and effort invested in law school.

Most of you reading this are not lawyers, so why should you care? To produce the class of 2014, the U.S. government invested $17,905,900 in MC Law and $10,585,435 in Ole Miss. The government is shelling out about $160,000 per actual lawyer produced when this state probably has 2,000 more than it needs. According to The Wall Street Journal, 40 percent of all student loans are not currently being paid back, and the numbers for law schools shouldn’t be very different. No bank would ever loan a 21-year-old with no job experience or collateral $100,000 to start a business with slim prospects. No bank would stay in business if 40 percent of its loans weren’t performing, but that is exactly what our government is doing, and you, the taxpayer, are on the hook for it.

62 comments:

Anonymous said...

The only reason you need a smooth-mouth is to protect yourself from another one.

Anonymous said...

Screw this "esteemed attorney". I'm going to go to law school in the fall and get a huge student loan just because of him.

Anonymous said...

There are tons of lawyers out there. There are very few good ones.

Anonymous said...

2:03, nobody used the word esteemed but you.

Anonymous said...

@1:18 & 2:03...The truth hurts doesn't it??

I have a family member that finished LSU Law and it took him many months and moving out of the South (MS, LA, AL) to find an entry level job with a law firm. His huge student loan is eating his lunch. He has many classmates with the same problem.

@2:35 ..agreed. I have seen many people screwed by incompetent lawyers and then had to pay through the nose all over again to hire another lawyer to fix both the original problem and the new ones created by the first attorney.

Anonymous said...

@3:17... Most attorneys in this state are competent. Clients have a way of screwing themselves and then blaming it on the lawyer... i.e. failing their drug test, but blaming the lawyer for having to take it in the first place. Lawyers are an easy target, so take what people say with a grain of salt.

Anonymous said...

I practiced law for 36 years, but was lucky and was able to retire because I was sick of the crap. Most lawyers are competent, not elite, but competent; its that the true fools gather a lot of attention and make their numbers seem larger.

Anonymous said...

The thing is - the situation is much worse than this and we all know it. This fool idea to have the Federal government give out student loans like candy at Christmas is bad in so many ways. Off the top of my head:
1. Schools keep raising tuition and will continue to do so as long as classrooms room are full. This benefits no one except that additional layers of school administrators and paper pushers that would not be there if the students had to actually pay for school.
2. There is no need for everyone in the country to have a college education. After a few years in the work world the cream rises to the top and the people who should have never gone to college in the first place are either 'under employed' or work for the government.
3. Thousands of young people who should be learning to repair computers or weld are getting into huge dept and losing four or more years of earnings while chasing a degree that they are not actually smart enough to get.
4. Millions of young people are so burdened with college loan debt that they cannot buy their first home or a decent car.
5. Because so many students are getting Federal Loans - the federal government wants to run all the colleges even as far as telling them to change rules and customs about rest rooms that have worked just fine for two hundred years. This is just the tip of the iceberg.

I have heard this several times 'You cannot work your way thru college today. It just costs too much.' OK. Why does it cost so much ? Because the taxpayers finance these student loans that put butts in the seats. Government has no business making student loans - Read the Constitution. Stop it. When the colleges start having empty seats, tuition rates will fall like a rock. Guaranteed. Then people whose parents or grandparents did not save for their college tuition can work their way thru school and things will work like they did for decades.
Oh and by the way - there is nothing that prevents a taxpayer or group of taxpayers from funding college scholarships at whichever high schools or colleges they choose. So there will be help for people, just not a massive infusion of cash into the schools, student debt, and taxpayer debt.


Anonymous said...

it is a great place to meet chicks, though.

Anonymous said...

I finally passed my GED test and got a job as a Petroleum Landman, I taught a many of Attorneys how to make a living.

Anonymous said...

About 10 years ago I was talking with a young female lawyer who told me that she became a lawyer with over $250,000.00 in student loans. I don't see how she can ever pay off that loan unless she does personal injury and gets a case where a Walmart truck runs over and kils a family of five. Not likely since there are a few lawyers who spends in excess of $100,000.00 a year in advertising to get 18 wheeler cases. Now to the reason for this post. There are probably twice as many lawyers as are needed to serve the public. When I was fortunate enough to pass the Bar exam in the late 60's there were only about 1500 lawyers in the state. Now, from what I read recently, there are about 8000. I know many lawyers who from their parents home and borrow a conference room from another lawyer to meet clients. Many are doing good to make $40,000.00 a year. A person with a high school education and some job training can make that much or more without all the debt. Oh, one more thing, it is to easy to become a lawyer these days. These young entitled law students who complain about how hard it is to pass the Bar exam apparently don't realize that there is a passing rate of approximately 85%. When I took the Bar exam the pass rate was about 15%. The present high passing rate allow law schools to admit more students and charge more money. It's a shame to promise a fantastic career then not produce jobs. There have been several lawsuits against law schools and college career counselors around the US for overpromising careers.

Anonymous said...

3:59, line item 2 and 3 are very true. What we have is laziness in our country. Not everyone is college material. I realized that 35 years ago in myself. Self employed and still know to this day that college isn't for everyone. We need more skills training in our schools with mandatory drug testing to eliminate slackers who just want to get out of classrooms. The vocational sector is hurting considerably in our state. We need specific trade and skills training for the different areas of our state that represent industrial jobs. A young person may respond better to how he works with different skills training than sitting in a lecture hall.

Anonymous said...

I am old and years out of college. Is $250,000 a normal amount for student loan debt now?

Anonymous said...

There should be Truth & Lending statement that the student has to sign to get these student loans. In the statement it could explain the number of jobs that would be available, pay & percent employed in that field.
This is why Bennie Sanders was so popular because he promised a free college education.
1:18 PM hit the nail on the head. You only need a lawyer to protect yourself from another lawyer.

Anonymous said...

Law is NOT an appropriate degree for ordinary people. If you're from a family who whelp-out babies, without considering whether there is/will be money for private schools, trust funds, & college tuition, then you probably DID NOT inherit the critical mental characteristics. So, if you need to student loans to get a degree (and you're not an orphan), then you probably WILL NOT benefit from a Law degree.

People DO work themselves through advanced degrees. I know someone who worked, operating earth moving equipment, through TWO advanced degrees. Whether or not he ends up as a practicing attorney, I feel certain that his degree will take him far (He's a natural, as CEO of a large construction company).

I regret listening to fools who told me, "Lawyers cain't make inny money, these days. Thur's teew minny lawyers." I spent as much money as Law would have required, and worked, apparently, harder than do Law students, to get my degrees. All that, plus a long internship, only to find myself locked out of the social class I was born into (long years in school, the long internship, plus more than a decade of working for sub-minimum-wages, meant that I had no money for anything, during my entire young adulthood), while even sub-par attorneys my age were having social lives, getting married, buying Mercedes, buying fine homes, having children... (none of which a person can afford, when working for less than Minimum Wage).

And then there are the family members with Law degrees. It rankles to hear them poor-mouthing - knowing they have vacation homes, pleasure boats, expensive vacations, multiple offspring, expensive hunting excursions and hobbies. They wondered why I couldn't "find somebody" (nobody wants you when you're broke, and dating takes money, which you don't have, making five-bucks-an-hour, "secretly" working 80-hour weeks, making a famous boss rich), why I didn't get cable (I'd rather have food), why no newspaper subscription (that two hundred bucks a year was needed for clothing), why I didn't have pets (I couldn't afford laundry bills, much less pet food and vets!), why I didn't just BUY a washer and dryer, instead of going to laundromats. These attorney relatives would keep right on saying, "Lawyers just can't make a living any more."

Finally, with death is a decade or two away, I have enough money coming in. I've probably got forty thou in checks, somewhere on this desk. Time, probably, to start buying stocks, although I have NO CLUE how... I do not have decades of wealth accumulation behind me, as do most attorneys. I have a 100k house - not a million-Dollar-house. It's only been a few years since bought my first 'Super-luxury sedan', after decades of driving old Volvos. I had to drop out of my family (no money for grad presents, Christmas presents, wedding presents, traveling to events, restaurants...), and never made any friends outside work (when all you do is work, that's how it is). So, I'm TOTALLY alone. There's not even a name for the blank "In case of emergency, contact ______". I use fake names, or my Accountant's.

Beyond the wardrobe required for my Job, and the car to reinforce my credibility, I have nothing. My furniture is basically stuff I pulled off the curb, on garbage days. I do not have hunting clothes, sports gear, golf bags... My whole life was about looking prosperous & authoritative enough to keep my job. So, I walk into a house with not much more than desks & office chairs & a mattress. Now, I'm wondering, "Why change? I'll be dead, soon."

I'm saying that while it's tough to make it as an attorney, it can be even TOUGHER, in other education-intensive fields. I'm locked into my field - unqualified for anything else. Attorneys CAN move into other fields (like most of my relatives with law degrees), and do well.

Anonymous said...

5:41 is dead on. It's much easier to become a lawyer than when I became one. Law schools are looking for MONEY; consequently, they admit many more people than they should. Another thing: since there are far more lawyers than we really need, we, as a profession, should do a much better job of determining who should, and who should not, be admitted into law school. In order to accomplish that, we would be wiser to admit only those whose undergraduate course of study sets them on a path for the study of law. For example, if you want to go to medical school, you can't just decide to go take the MCAT and be accepted into any medical school. You have to have first completed a rigorous curriculum that prepares you for the study of medicine. THEN, and only then, will taking the MCAT allow you to be considered by any school. On the other hand, to become a lawyer, you must first only have a bachelor's degree in anything, then make a satisfactory score on the LSAT. You do well enough on that test, and you're in.

Now, I fully realize the two studies are distinctly different and that the study of law CAN be accomplished by people of varied backgrounds. It's just that the medical profession does a MUCH better job of weeding out "un-serious" people by making the entry into the profession a much more difficult, structured path. Conversely, any college graduate (unless the rules have changed) can just one day decide to go to law school, and provided they make a good enough score on the LSAT, they're in!

We've already got far too many lawyers, and the ones coming out of law school have to churn up business also (fomenting litigation, anyone?) As is more and more the case, when some can't get work, they go out and "create" it. That's bad for everyone - except the one churning the business.

Last comment: with the exception of one person, of the close friends I had in law school, every single one of them HATES the practice of law! They say it's boring, uncivil, tedious, etc. So why isn't that more well-known by the people who seek to go to law school? I'm not sure........

Derrell Ray said...

I have a question, when a lawyer gets sick an has to go to a doctor,do you tell him your a lawyer?

Anonymous said...

"The only reason you need a smooth-mouth is to protect yourself from another one."

The town I grew up in was too small to support a lawyer, but it could afford to support two lawyers ;-)

Anonymous said...

" For example, if you want to go to medical school, you can't just decide to go take the MCAT and be accepted into any medical school. You have to have first completed a rigorous curriculum that prepares you for the study of medicine. THEN, and only then, will taking the MCAT allow you to be considered by any school. "

Uh, it hasn't been that way at the better med schools for at least 20 years. Any major is fine, but you must have Biology, Physics, Chemistry (inorganic and organic) and one semester of calculus at most schools.

Anonymous said...

Substitute any degree for a law degree in this article and it is generally still true because the schools are absorbing all of the money that is being thrown at them. They are printing degrees of all sorts. Just wait till they are all free.

Alpha Storm said...

Lawyers are crooks.

Anonymous said...

Can't you post something Kingfish about Felix Vail? He is the only thing that matters to the metro area.

Voc. Ed. said...

Is it being suggested that 'some lawyers' are making only 40k per year?

Anonymous said...

easy solution: go to law school, flunk the bar exam, become a blogger...

Anonymous said...

Did that make you feel good 6:45 AM? Feeling righteous and superior?

Kingfish said...

Well 6:45, I don't discuss my personal business on this website but I will make a one time exception in your case. I never took the bar exam. Period. Got it, lying scumbag? Don't bother replying because I'm not approving, it, scumbag.

Anonymous said...

The law is not the only degree where more people graduate than there are jobs available.
There are students who come from humble means that graduate at the top of their class in their chosen areas of study and they will do well and be able to pay back loans even in the law.
There are students who come from wealthy families who have no debt but who are accepted and graduate simply because their parents have contributed large amounts of money to the school. They will do well because Daddy or Granddaddy was very, very rich and protected the wealth.
The problem is that colleges and universities accept and graduate students who will never be able to find a job in their field of study or worse, who will and make a mess of whatever they undertake. Junior and community colleges accept those they know will fail and wash out. All they need to do is keep the student long enough to get the Pell grant money.
Those of you worried about poor students getting money and never contributing to society after college are blind when that student can help your university's team have a winning season and whether or not they can go on to entertain you at the pro level is not something you worry about.
Making money available for students who have the grades and test scores and mental stability to prove they can succeed in college is good and works. The Hope Scholarship at the University of Georgia has been successful.
I support making college free for those in our society that are smart and talented. That helps our society. It does encourage students at an early age to do well in school and the odds of success are far better than it is for all those kids who think football or baseball will be their ticket out of poverty.
Far too many Americans don't understand that the words " created equal" refer to birth when abilities are unknown or realize the words that follow are a caveat. The goal is equal opportunity to succeed based on your effort and talents.
It is in the interest of any society to make sure their best and brightest can contribute their talents.
And, sadder still , we are promoting and graduating people who don't ever learn how to comprehend the information they receive. They don't know what they don't know. The have " recognition " skills and can pick out the right answer from a list of choices. Some can memorize but not understand what the words mean when it comes to application and decision making.
The key is facing the fact that not every child can graduate from high school or a junior or community college or a college or university. The key is raising the standards that have been lowered. The key is parents facing the fact that little jane or johnny might not be smart and maybe they aren't as smart as they think they are. Really smart people know what they don't know and are willing to listen and learn from those who do know.
Our education failures are proof that a profit/business model doesn't work for everything!
But, our biggest mistake is specializing education to the extent that even those who do graduate at the top of their class lack context and basic life skills! They can't manage a budget or understand basic principles of government and law or see when they are being duped. We once required a general understanding of these things but " money" driven people did away with courses like civics , economics, statistics, social science, geography, philosophy and science as required courses. They used to be introduced at good high schools and continued the first two years of college. Junior colleges were a place for " late bloomers" to prove they were just that and otherwise , there were " trade" schools. Other western countries have not wrecked their education systems on the alters of politics and profit.
If you want to fix our educational system, it would behoove you to look at how successful systems are structured.

Anonymous said...

The average pay for lawyers practicing law in Mississippi has made a law degree a very bad bet for a very long time. This is not, as the writer implies, a recent phenomenon. Throw in the cost of law school, and it has always been a horrible financial decision to practice law. Those at the top of their class might can get a job at a good firm where they can toil away for 80 hours a week for 10 years and THEN start making halfway good money. Jackpot Justice used to make it a better bet for those who skate by in school. The moral of the story: If you are smart enough to graduate top of your class in law school, choose another profession. It has been this way for a very long time. Nothing new here.

Anonymous said...

Sure were a lot of two bit lawyers on Ashley Madison.

Anonymous said...

They can't stand your success Kingfish.

Anonymous said...

@Voc. Ed.: There are a LOT of lawyers in MS making less than that.

This article is spot on. Going to law school is, for most people, a horrible waste of money (theirs or the government's).

Funny to see everyone trashing lawyers in the comments, when the comments to many other posts on here are filled with misapprehensions from wannabe lawyers who don't know what they're talking about.

Anonymous said...

9:24 "Funny to see everyone trashing lawyers in the comments..."

Well, I think that "down deep" lawyers are pretty good folks.

Kingfish said...

They are. They taste even better with Tabasco and garlic.

Anonymous said...

As the old saying "It's the 99% that are bad that give the other 1% a bad name"............

Actually, we all know some great people that are great lawyers. We all also know others that are totally dishonest, don't care, and/or incompetent.

Among my misadventures with the bottom-feeding mass tort lawyers, I was a defendant in a bogus mass tort lawsuit for a drug that I didn't give the patient. The complaint said I destroyed the patient's life, caused her to lose her job and family, etc., etc. When the patient came back to me for care, I asked her what the deal was and she said she just saw the ad in the paper where she could get some money for a drug she thought she had taken and signed up. She never told them she was harmed and the lawyers made up all the shit they claimed in their suit. When the fact that I did not give the patient the alleged "bad drug" was brought to the trial lawyer's attention, they still would not release me. I spent $10,000 in legal fees getting released from the legal extortion practiced by our legal profession.

Another classic example was a doctor that was named in a similar lawsuit because the patient couldn't remember the doctor's name but knew he was of Indian descent. So they just picked one and sued him. He, of course, was not the one that saw the patient (who had not been harmed by any drug anyway).

Not all doctors hate lawyers, but once you have been violated, you never, EVER forget it.

Anonymous said...

The hard reality is that MC Law School needs to close.

I say this as someone who works with several fine MC lawyers, but they are from a different time. MC Law began with a noble purpose, but it is rapidly devolving into a scam.

Mississippi was hit with the double whammy of a nationwide downturn in demand, plus tort reform. There will never again be enough legal jobs in this state to justify two law schools.

If MC really is a Christian university, they need to be proactive and start the process of winding down the law school now, before the market forces them out (as it is doing to other tier 4 schools) ten years down the road.

Anonymous said...

6:27 PM Regarding investing in stocks, I would strongly suggest to learn how to do it yourself. Read books, take a course on stocks, etc. Some financial advisors who manage your money are good while others just churn your account to make commissions. Start slow and stick to blue chips with good dividends that are not going under and build from there.

Anonymous said...

As a struggling young lawyer in his mid 30s, I agree that law school is a complete waste of time and money for most people. I've kind of lucked into doing something I enjoy and believe in, and while I don't get paid very much at all, it's enough to service my debt and keep me alive.

But here's a thought: what education track is an absolute 100% guaranteed path to financial security? The only one I can think of is medicine. And I would argue that that's pretty closely related to how Medicaid, Medicare, Obamacare tax credits, etc. are ever more rapidly inflating the national debt, and how premiums and deductibles are putting ever more stress on businesses and individuals. So, like, is it financially savvy and wise to become an RN instead of getting a BA, or even a JD, or is it simply being an opportunist feeding at an unsustainable trough?

I think what these "stay away from college" and "law degrees are retarded" threads are really getting at is that our economy is full of uncertainty. It's hard to see the path to the middle class. What we need is better communication between business and education, so that we can develop vocational tracks through school that more closely match what the economy needs.

Anonymous said...

One guy claimed the pass rate for the bar exam in Mississippi is 85%. Is this true? Does anyone know what other states, or surrounding states have as an average passing rate?

Anonymous said...


KINGFISH, YOU ARE TO GOOD TO BE A LAWYER !!!!!

Anonymous said...

It was 70% last July. It was 85% a few years ago. The exam got a little harder, and the students got a lot worse, so they don't pass as often as they used to.

Anonymous said...

@2:41. There's no way to make anything a guarantee. No even med school. From what my friends tell me, a startling number of grads failed to get residencies last year because there are more medical schools but no more residencies.

The real problem is that law school is unjustifiably expensive. It's really not that expensive to run a law school. If it was as cheap and students couldn't get jobs, they'd write it off and do something else. The fact is, they've got so much student loan debt it's hard to walk away, and it's hard not to be angry about it.

Anonymous said...

Ever wonder why hot night clubs charge a cover fee to get in or why some bars charge way more than others for a drink? It's to keep the average person out. The owner figures "Hey, I have limited space so I want only people who will pay X in here". The high cost of law school would ordinarily keep the mentally challenged or lazy people from applying. Except that the government is picking up the tab. So now you have too many people in the club and it's not even the cool place to be anymore.

Anonymous said...

There are waaaaay too many lawyers now. But, just because one graduated in the top of a class doesn't mean anything. They will get jobs, true enough, but they invariably turn into nameless faceless cogs. One top 10 law school grad is much like any other.

As for the complainer about how the Bar is so much easier now as opposed to the olden days, how do you explain the fact that until 75 or so Ole Miss grads didn't even have to take the Bar?

And for 11:00 AM, those of us that have had family members killed by moron doctors and their rank incompetence don't forget either. If the medical licensure board in MS actually had a spine, there really would be a shortage of doctors in MS, as opposed to the doctor funded tort reform made up "crisis" of the early part of this century.

Anonymous said...



Having a law degree is a tremendous tool for anyone in business.

I'd much rather have a law degree and be in business than have a business degree and need a lawyer.

Why? Because it's nice to tell someone to go fuck themselves when they say "you'll hear from my lawyer".

Anonymous said...

Just go to dental school, work 28 to 30 hours a week, and earn 450k/year. Pretty easy lifestyle and no call on the weekends.

Anonymous said...

I think you now see why we have so many lawyers..everyone has an opinion and likes to spew it.

Anonymous said...

Universities hire personnel with law degrees to oversee a variety of institutional functions, such as athletic compliance dealing with NCAA legislation; human resources; institutional compliance with legal and regulatory requirements.

Anonymous said...

This thread is a monument to lawyers' brevity.

Anonymous said...

Ain't worth it.

MCSOL grad.

Anonymous said...

My husband was law review and his list of personal achievements before going to law school was more than a little impressive. He could have chosen any career path . While we aren't as rich as our peers who went into business or medicine, neither of us believed that a job is all about the money.

The ideal is to have a job that you love so that you look forward to going to work each day. The belief that money is indicative of personal success is a myth.

We both knew first hand that wealth doesn't bring happiness or make one immune from troubles nor is there anything ennobling about being poor. We knew plenty of " poor little rich boys" and " poor boys with a mighty chip on their shoulders".

And, frankly, we both agreed that a life well lived involved personal integrity and making a positive contribution to the communities in which we found ourselves.

The focus should be on educational institutions that ill prepare and/or mislead students about the success rate of their programs. The problems are how that adversely impacts society including having tax dollars go to those institutions.

The discussion we should have been having for a long time is how money has truly become the " root of all evil" in this Nation! And, we might should ask ourselves how is it that we came to believe " that winning is everything" when once we believed " that it's not whether you win or lose but how you play the game"? Seems to me that equating money with success and excusing every sin imaginable in the pursuit of winning in a Nation of those who purport to be Christians should raise concern, at least, among the Christians.



Anonymous said...

Ole Miss grad. It ain't worth it. Find something fulfilling. I would dig ditches at this point if it would pay my mortgage.

Anonymous said...

There should be a law against lawyers.

Anonymous said...

Get a liberal arts degree and become a pharma rep. You can make plenty of money without much brain effort if you are willing to kiss doctors' asses and tell them how wonderful and smart they are. Sort of like prostitution I guess. And it is so good for society. You bribe the doc into prescribing your med rather than another that might really be a better choice. Prices rise. Doc wins a nice tropical trip for being your top producer. And, you get a bonus. Only the poor patient gets stiffed. God Bless the American Dream!

Anonymous said...

Thank you, 2:29! I DO intend to buy the stocks, myself. I've known people nearly ruined by their brokers/advisors, and have much apprehension in that regard. But what is missing is the basic information, outlining the basic structure of the system, how one holds stocks, purchases them, etc. I don't need 'strategies' and 'keen insight', as much as I need the basic orientation information. Again, though, thank you for responding!

Anonymous said...

" Doc wins a nice tropical trip for being your top producer."

Bullshit. Proof of current practice (last 20 years or so) or it didn't happen.

Anonymous said...

10:11 You're getting warmer, but there is an easier option.

Invest in mutual funds called "Index Funds". Every major financial house has several. They seek to purchase stocks in companies that make up an index that is tracked and reported. That way, when you hear "the Dow went up 2% today" you know your holdings went up 2% without checking each individual stock, because your stocks mimic the Dow's stocks almost exactly. Index funds for small companies, large companies, technology companies, etc, all exist. They also have minimal management fees, which affects how much you keep after the value goes up. John Bogle of Vanguard showed repeatedly showed thaat that these funds, over time, did as well or better than "managed" accounts with high commissions.

Index funds give you the accumulated wisdom of everyone who buys stocks, including the professional stock pickers as well as individual investors. And you don't have to pay a nickle for it if you buy an index funds. Some people, for a short time, may invest in stocks that get much better returns than the market in general, but it never lasts. If someone repeatedly out-smarted all the other investors everyone would take their business to that person or firm. Hasn't happened yet, and I'm not holding my breath on it.

Several national companies offer index funds. I won't recommend any here because I suspect our blog manager would appreciate it if they took out an ad instead :-)

Anonymous said...

10:46, Just because you do not know something, refuse to do research, and refuse to listen to what is happening does not mean it didn't happen. It just means you don't know what is happening in the world.

Anonymous said...

If you do not own a super computer and live a few blacks from Wall St. buying stocks is just a gamble most lose.

Anonymous said...

10:58, I already have tens of thousands tied up in the "easier option", in my "Retirement Account". Over the decades, those funds have never kept up with INFLATION. Currently, my money (invested through a major national company, whose name is synonymous with 'Leading-edge'- the 'plan' sold to my boss by a loud-mouthed piece of white trash from South Mississippi, who named his daughter after a type of liquor) isn't even "growing" enough to offset custodial fees. But I could have done worse. I chose the 'safe' option, and haven't lost HUGE chunks of money, during economic downturns, as have coworkers who chose the 'growth funds'.

Anonymous said...

HaHa at 11:26

Anonymous said...

12:26 I'm sorry to hear about the rigged system your boss imposed on you. I have done fairly well through conservative investing in index funds (plus a little in other funds) by leaving the money alone over 20 years and riding out the periodic downturns. As I said, I am sure KF would be happy to sell them ads on this blog, so I won't name them, but most of my money has been through well-established firms that were OPTIONS offered by different employers.

It sounds like you didn't have any other options except crap plans hatched by your employer's buddy, probably designed to maximize his commission instead of your returns.

Anonymous said...

Pharma reps are almost a thing of the past, as are new drugs. If you practice medicine, you will find out quickly that even if you want to write a new medication for a patient, the insurance company will not authorize it and it will be too expensive to afford. For the most part I only write generic meds for patients that are tried and true, too many damn product liability suits from the likes of the lawyers trying to make a buck cause there isn't any real work.

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Trollfest '09

Trollfest '07 was such a success that Jackson Jambalaya will once again host Trollfest '09. Catch this great event which will leave NE Jackson & Fondren in flames. Othor Cain and his band, The Black Power Structure headline the night while Sonjay Poontang returns for an encore performance. Former Frank Melton bodyguard Marcus Wright makes his premier appearance at Trollfest singing "I'm a Sweet Transvestite" from "The Rocky Horror Picture Show." Kamikaze will sing his new hit, “How I sold out to da Man.” Robbie Bell again performs: “Mamas, don't let your babies grow up to be Bells” and “Any friend of Ed Peters is a friend of mine”. After the show, Ms. Bell will autograph copies of her mug shot photos. In a salute to “Dancing with the Stars”, Ms. Bell and Hinds County District Attorney Robert Smith will dance the Wango Tango.

Wrestling returns, except this time it will be a Battle Royal with Othor Cain, Ben Allen, Kim Wade, Haley Fisackerly, Alan Lange, and “Big Cat” Donna Ladd all in the ring at the same time. The Battle Royal will be in a steel cage, no time limit, no referee, and the losers must leave town. Marshand Crisler will be the honorary referee (as it gives him a title without actually having to do anything).


Meet KIM Waaaaaade at the Entergy Tent. For five pesos, Kim will sell you a chance to win a deed to a crack house on Ridgeway Street stuffed in the Howard Industries pinata. Don't worry if the pinata is beaten to shreds, as Mr. Wade has Jose, Emmanuel, and Carlos, all illegal immigrants, available as replacements for the it. Upon leaving the Entergy tent, fig leaves will be available in case Entergy literally takes everything you have as part of its Trollfest ticket price adjustment charge.

Donna Ladd of The Jackson Free Press will give several classes on learning how to write. Smearing, writing without factchecking, and reporting only one side of a story will be covered. A donation to pay their taxes will be accepted and she will be signing copies of their former federal tax liens. Ms. Ladd will give a dramatic reading of her two award-winning essays (They received The Jackson Free Press "Best Of" awards.) "Why everything is always about me" and "Why I cover murders better than anyone else in Jackson".

In the spirit of helping those who are less fortunate, Trollfest '09 adopts a cause for which a portion of the proceeds and donations will be donated: Keeping Frank Melton in his home. The “Keep Frank Melton From Being Homeless” booth will sell chances for five dollars to pin the tail on the jackass. John Reeves has graciously volunteered to be the jackass for this honorable excursion into saving Frank's ass. What's an ass between two friends after all? If Mr. Reeves is unable to um, perform, Speaker Billy McCoy has also volunteered as when the word “jackass” was mentioned he immediately ran as fast as he could to sign up.


In order to help clean up the legal profession, Adam Kilgore of the Mississippi Bar will be giving away free, round-trip plane tickets to the North Pole where they keep their bar complaint forms (which are NOT available online). If you don't want to go to the North Pole, you can enjoy Brant Brantley's (of the Mississippi Commission on Judicial Performance) free guided tours of the quicksand field over by High Street where all complaints against judges disappear. If for some reason you are unable to control yourself, never fear; Judge Houston Patton will operate his jail where no lawyers are needed or allowed as you just sit there for minutes... hours.... months...years until he decides he is tired of you sitting in his jail. Do not think Judge Patton is a bad judge however as he plans to serve free Mad Dog 20/20 to all inmates.

Trollfest '09 is a pet-friendly event as well. Feel free to bring your dog with you and do not worry if your pet gets hungry, as employees of the Jackson Zoo will be on hand to provide some of their animals as food when it gets to be feeding time for your little loved one.

Relax at the Fox News Tent. Since there are only three blonde reporters in Jackson (being blonde is a requirement for working at Fox News), Megan and Kathryn from WAPT and Wendy from WLBT will be on loan to Fox. To gain admittance to the VIP section, bring either your Republican Party ID card or a Rebel Flag. Bringing both and a torn-up Obama yard sign will entitle you to free drinks served by Megan, Wendy, and Kathryn. Get your tickets now. Since this is an event for trolls, no ID is required. Just bring the hate. Bring the family, Trollfest '09 is for EVERYONE!!!

This is definitely a Beaver production.


Note: Security provided by INS.

Trollfest '07

Jackson Jambalaya is the home of Trollfest '07. Catch this great event which promises to leave NE Jackson & Fondren in flames. Sonjay Poontang and his band headline the night with a special steel cage, no time limit "loser must leave town" bout between Alan Lange and "Big Cat"Donna Ladd following afterwards. Kamikaze will perform his new song F*** Bush, he's still a _____. Did I mention there was no referee? Dr. Heddy Matthias and Lori Gregory will face off in the undercard dueling with dangling participles and other um, devices. Robbie Bell will perform Her two latest songs: My Best Friends are in the Media and Mama's, Don't Let Your Babies Grow up to be George Bell. Sid Salter of The Clarion-Ledger will host "Pin the Tail on the Trial Lawyer", sponsored by State Farm.

There will be a hugging booth where in exchange for your young son, Frank Melton will give you a loooong hug. Trollfest will have a dunking booth where Muhammed the terrorist will curse you to Allah as you try to hit a target that will drop him into a vat of pig grease. However, in the true spirit of Separate But Equal, Don Imus and someone from NE Jackson will also sit in the dunking booth for an equal amount of time. Tom Head will give a reading for two hours on why he can't figure out who the hell he is. Cliff Cargill will give lessons with his .80 caliber desert eagle, using Frank Melton photos as targets. Tackleberry will be on hand for an autograph session. KIM Waaaaaade will be passing out free titles and deeds to crackhouses formerly owned by The Wood Street Players.

If you get tired come relax at the Fox News Tent. To gain admittance to the VIP section, bring either your Republican Party ID card or a Rebel Flag. Bringing both will entitle you to free drinks.Get your tickets now. Since this is an event for trolls, no ID is required, just bring the hate. Bring the family, Trollfest '07 is for EVERYONE!!!

This is definitely a Beaver production.

Note: Security provided by INS
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