Jackson Jambalaya

Is this another Butler Snow education money grabbing project gone bad???

Still waiting for the hammer to fall on the admin in the school and district. No way those teachers breathed oxygen without permission first.

We badly need a way to evaluate and reward teachers in this country. The traditional way - the longer you have worked, the more we will pay you, is insane. We all went to school. We all had teachers who were great, middle of the road, and horrible. Think back on your teachers - was there a strong correlation between experience and results?
If schools were run like private businesses the middle managers, principals and superintendents would have some ability to pay good teachers more, middle of the road teachers less, and poor teachers nothing. Then the managers would be help accountable for school wide results. If the schools failed they would be fired. If schools succeeded, they would get bonuses. I don't have all the answers, but what we have been doing for decades is a bad plan.

Good luck with the teachers union, 1:52, (MAE) or that splendid suggestion.

1:52, Schools aren't businesses producing straight A's in students. Too many other factors play in student achievement other than just teaching and schooling. How would you measure "production" of the teachers and administrators that is fair and reflective of actual best practices in education?

Recently in a discussion of rewarding good teachers based on students' grades, the topic was introduced that students could gang-up and sink a teacher. They can agree to all fail a test and make the teacher lose the chance to get rewarded, unless the teacher does what they want. This seems far fetched in one way, but in another I can see it happening. Would be interested in other's take on this angle.

4:11; There is no such thing as 'a teacher's union' in the state of Mississippi. Unions have contracts, engage in collective bargaining, represent employees in grievance procedures, defend employees against sanctions and have a voice in the assignment, reassignment and termination of the employees of a bargaining unit.

Nice try.

It doesn't take standardized testing to spot a good teacher or a bad teacher. Principals should be able to fire any teacher 1 month before testing. At least the next teacher would have a chance to cram the kids before the big exam.

Perhaps a combination of several factors should determine teacher pay.
Assuming a school district has the same money for salaries, but wants to consider a better way to determine wages. How about something like this (of course the actual percentages should not be set by me, I made up something as an example).
85% of current average teacher pay = The base salary that all teachers get.
5% bonus for a masters degree
5% bonus for a Phd
1/2% bonus for each year of teaching experience up to a max of 20 years experience.
5% maximum bonus for improving test scores in the classroom
3% max bonus as voted by other teachers based on reputation and co-operation
7% max bonus based on skill, effort, knowledge, and results as determined by the school principal.
(Note: Maximum total will be more than 100% because most teachers will get less than 100%)
OR we could keep paying based mostly on years of experience and keep wondering why schools don't improve.

It's a hokey (stupid) idea to give a principal, even a superintendent, the authority to out-right fire a teacher. There is more politics, more cronyism, more favoritism, more nepotism going on in school systems than in any other American workplace.

Principals are nothing more than teachers who managed to attend 15-30 more hours of classroom lecture. And too many of them got in the position by sucking up to the last guy who had the job and got himself promoted. Most of them have no clue about business management, acceptable personnel practices, employment law or motivating a workforce.

They are trained dogs who have learned which hoops to jump through, center stage, to satisfy the people in Jackson. I've never met a principal who could manage even a donut shop in the private sector.

12:29: Excellent post. I like seeing someone on this blog who actually offers a solution to a given problem. Most folks on this site simply throw stones. Thanks for your post.

360 degree appraisals have never worked and will never work. They're popularity based and heavily influenced by emotion and feelings.

The work, commitment, effort and attitude of an individual can NOT be measured by outcomes in a classroom. Outcome in a classroom is 80% determined by home environment and parental involvement.

Before we start talking about performance based pay for teachers, we need to get real serious about performance based pay and retention for superintendents and principals.

We have State Ed Department 'employees' (many of them, themselves, failed or ineffective classroom educators) descending on school buildings under the guise of evaluating processes and outcomes and very little ever comes of it. Rarely is a school put on probation. The system is rigged to give a district multiple opportunities to fail and repetitively fail. By the time it gets really serious, the people at the top of that system retire and become consultants for the State Department of Education.

Before we can entertain solutions, we MUST agree on the problems. It's one thing to sling suggestions and 'solutions' at the flip chart. But we need to back up about forty steps and be real sure we understand the problem and its multiple causes.

We don't all have to agree on the best way to hire and pay restaurant cooks. Because the restaurant owners make those decisions. And if they make good smart decisions we eat there and they make money and if they make bad stupid decisions we don't eat there and they go out of business. There is no reason why schools should be any different. Give parents a voucher and let them decide who provides the best education for their children.

George - that is great. Capitalism works. But when you make the public schools compete against private ones, would you continue to tie the hands of the administrators who are not allowed to pay based on merit? For if you do and the charter schools don't the great teachers will go where they are paid more and given freedom. The bad teachers will stay in the system that rewards them for showing up.

5:33 I agree that if principals and superintendents are given more responsibility, the system for choosing principals and superintendents would need to be changed. On the other hand, if a principal is given the power to reward great teachers, perhaps some good people who do not want to be principals under the current system will then want the job.
Perhaps some people who do not even want to work in education will also change their minds.
People who are good at their jobs want to work where being good at your job is rewarded and being bad gets you canned. People who are good at their jobs hate working with people who are not.

It's so simple. The way to prevent teachers from cheating on state tests is to do what some other states do: forbid them to administer the test to their own students! On testing day, teachers swap classrooms. Why in the world is it allowed to test your own students in the first place?

Of course, there are other ways to cheat. Teachers are not supposed to see the test questions. But I have heard them discussing what facts and skills to teach in the coming year, though, because that fact or skill "is on the test". How do they know?

As for principals being allowed to award raises for good teachers, most of them would not recognize good teachers. Folks, most principals are former athletic coaches. Additionally, like most managers, they think the best employee is the one who is the least trouble, certainly not a teacher who is going to insist on order, discipline, fewer classroom interruptions such as announcements, last-minute reports and last-minute faculty meetings, for example.

OMG - Most of the respondents on this thread have obviously not taught school or have any idea of what teachers are up against these days. You cannot just take year-end test scores and evaluate a teacher - just doesn't hold water. You've got so many variables on those scores that it's a nearly impossible task.

This current M-Star teacher evaluation system is a joke. It non-sensible. Just try checking out all the components. Evidence of being the primary word. The documentation placed on teachers not exceeds that of the medical profession. Teachers in general and especially elementary teachers are the most micro-managed profession imaginable. You are told when, where and how to do everything. Have you ever heard of a "focus wall" and the NECESSITY of one.

And then there is the behavior - go to a south Jackson elementary school and just stand around for a few hours - especially after lunch - walk the halls, go in the classrooms.
You can plan until you are blue in the face - doesn't matter.