Jackson Jambalaya

Would a Government-Retirement Account get borrowed against like other accounts that the government manages?

Oh crap, here we go again!

I doesn't necessarily have to be a grab by the government, esp if a big insurance company is behind this, one that sells a boatload of annuities. Think guaranteed stream of income vs. required distribution at retirement.

Although I'm always up for a good gov't conspiracy.

I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a Hamburger today.

First glance, it looks like they want to take self-directed plans and leverage them against a government backed security system. If you see SSI creep into this discussion you know what they are attempting to do. Who or what is going to fund all those SSI payments in the next few decades??? Hmmm.

Gee, I would hope it means we might have more opportunity to self-direct. I would hope the tax penalties on early withdrawal would be revisited and I would hope the tax rate would be changed.I would wish we could invest in STOCKS rather than FUNDS and that fees would be tied to performance rather than amount paid in.

4:41,

In some plans you do have the option for stocks via a self directed brokerage account, which is usually available for an additional fee. Ask you plan sponsor if you can open one.

Also, in 401(k) plans that have funds that trade daily at NAV (which means no front loads), the fees that are associated with the funds (not to be confused with plan admin fees or RIA fees) are directly related to the share class you are purchasing. And that usually depends on one thing: your plan size (in assets). The larger the plan, the better your share class in terms of the expense ratio (which is directly tied to performance). Most retirement plans are now written in the special "Retirement" (or R share) class. However, if you work for a large employer then you could be one of the lucky few buying institutional shares, which have extremely low expense ratios.

Welcome to Socialist America!! Where is the incentive to better yourself!

"OBAMER gonna take care of hiz peoples"! Fuck'n Democrats!!!!!

And what your employer pays toward your health insurance will be taxed as income. And don't forget, the Bush tax cuts expire this year. Can you say "depression?"

I don't think the government will seize anything like some worrywarts think.

What I think the goal of Miller and others is to remove the tax breaks from IRA's and similar plans and possible grant them instead to pension or GRA's. The carrot might be something like offering people to convert their IRA's to GRA's BUT give them the value of say, June 2008, right before the crash.

Maybe, just maybe, this could be a response to the massive 401-k account losses experienced by many Americans during the latest, and certainly not the last, Wall Street Crash Conspiracy.

As for taking away our right to manage our own money, most 401-k acount holders rely on "professional" (read Wall Street Co-Consprirator)account managers and not their own knowledge. Mainly because the stock market, by design, is as incomprehensible to the average citizen as the tax code.

Just another view on the issue.

So the question becomes would you rather be the victem of government inefficiency or corporate theft?

Let the buyer beware.

That came to mind today over morning coffee. I guess a defined benefit paid in now for a guarantee later is better than allowing WS to continue to play loose with large Corporations 401k plans. On the whole, however, while I suffered losses, I also do manage my plans personally. While I do share the earlier frustration of having to invest in funds vs. stocks, I do find, the spreading of risk across indices funds to be much less risky and therefore they do provide value to me personally. The issue I am going to have is how they would value holdings vs. defined benefit. And what is to be done with those who have saved nothing. Also, don't know if I want to live off the government - they don't need to take care of me. In all of this, I don't either want to live as a pauper after WS has sucked up the last 401k dollar.

What exactly is any fifty-year average of the stock market? Even if your funds went down alot in 2008, the market still came back although I think it will probably go down again before this mess is over.

The difference is this. You can't leave a government annuity to your heirs. You can an IRA/401K. With a government annuity if you drop dead at 64y364d the government keeps 100% of it.

And they'll never pay you out the full amount amortized you have in there. They write the rules, they'll be the house on this one. House always wins.

Moreover, if you have a medical issue (cancer, heart problems, etc) you can't borrow against a government annuity to pay for it. (because you know obamacare won't be paying for squat for 60+yr olds). You'll just be screwed. And poor. And screwed.

Frank:

It is still MY MONEY and I should be allowed to invest it as I see fit. The government already has a say in my retirement: its called Social Security.

See, I believe in this thing called freedom of contract. No one is making me invest in a 401k or pension plan. My employer can offer it but I don't have to enroll in the plan. The government should just leave it the hell alone and concern itself with fraud and similar issues on retirement plans.