Saturday, August 22, 2015

Renaissance applied for sales tax rebates

JJ filed a public records request for the Renaissance at Colony Park, LLC application for the Mississippi Tourism Sales Tax rebate.  The Mississippi Development Authority provided the following information yesterday.  The application was made in December 2013 but does not specify any phases of the development.  It states the maximum rebate could be $29,594,938.  MDA did not provide any other documents or amendments. 
 






39 comments:

Anonymous said...

Was there not also an extension? Did they do a timely extension? I would be curious if they sent you everything?

Anonymous said...

Mississippi Republican "economic development" at its finest!

Gettin' The Record Skraight said...

Regarding Mississippi Democrat "economic development" please list one industry brought to Mississippi by Mabus, Allain or Finch.

Anonymous said...

A new Costco store costs around $25 to $30 million to build and open. In other states they have received financial incentives from $2 to $10 million and in some cases no incentives at all. As I understand Mississippi is essentially paying the entire cost of the store with the $29 million, that may be a new nationwide record.

Anonymous said...

Name one Democrat Gubner who was so insanely duped by the idea of turning pine tree scraps into Texas Tea?

Anonymous said...

Anonymous at 6:02 PM needs to be better informed. A developer must spend nearly $100 million to receive $25-$30 million. As mentioned at the meeting on Thursday, other deveopments are included.

Anonymous said...

I hope I do not see any of the anti-Costco people shopping at Renaissance, we know how much they are against all these "wealthy" developers getting sales tax $$$$. Northpark for you guys for at least the next 10 years.

Anonymous said...

You won't see them @8:29 PM because you don't know what wealth looks like.

Kingfish said...

Deleted this comment by accident.
Anonymous at 8:13 needs to be better informed. $100 million development cost can be very easily shown on paper without getting anywhere near that in true costs, all a shell game. All incentives included the developers will come out of pocket with next to nothing for the caliber of project this is. My understanding is this "whole Renaissance project" is very financially shaky and this expansion is desperately needed. Welcome to Ridgeland, Costco.






Anonymous said...

Dow Yoder for mayor!

Anonymous said...

So these criminal mastermind developers have concocted a scheme whereby they will pretend to build 300,000 square feet of new stuff, make up receipts for capital expenditures of at least $50M, and have 50 fake new tenants open (all minimums to receive any of this incentive, according to the law that I read), then trick the MS DOR into giving them a rebate at some point after the fake stores are open, sales are made, and the fake sales tax money has been collected, all with "next to nothing" out of pocket?

KF, I'm not sure if you're deliberately misleading people, or whether you're just spitballing conspiracy theories to drive site hits... But your last comment is laughable.

Kingfish said...

That comment was not made by me. An anonymous reader wrote it, I accidentally deleted it so I posted it. And said so.

Anonymous said...

what all has closed or is closing/moving from renaissance?

Anonymous said...

The original purpose of the TOURISM TAX rebate program has been prostituted by the greed of primarily one person with the power and brass to pull it off - Bill Yates. He got a big fat bonus of at least $25 million in "rebates" by getting the legislation amended a couple of years back to change the definition of TOURISM to allow his outlet mall in Pearl to qualify. The rebate program was supposed to be assisting the development of tourist attractions like hotels, entertainment districts, water parks, and other projects in the hospitality sector (thus "tourism) that needed help filling gaps to get those projects done. That certainly wasn't the case with Yates. Yates already had financing for his project, was already well down the line with the plans and construction, and didn't need a dime of taxpayer welfare to make it work. But he had enough muscle to get the law changed in a way that gave him FREE MONEY - corporate welfare- simply because he could. The little guys get jacksh%t because they don't have that kind of influence over the governor and Lt. Governor and their MDA boys.
This Renaissance project is more of the same. Don't forget that Barksdale is the money man behind the Renaissance. And, he doesn't even have to flex his muscle to have politicians pawing all over him to gain his favor. The TOURISM rebate program is a great program, but it should never have been amended to allow this kind of loophole for the ultra rich folks to simply get richer off of projects that don't need it. That $25 million given to Yates on a silver (uh, make that golden) platter could have been spread all over the state as $1 million grants to 25 deserving projects for young entrepreneurs that have trouble getting bank financing in this state of very little capital and ultra-conservative banks. The public interest would be much better served by having 25 new smaller projects (even if a few of them fail) than a great big one where the fat cats just take their huge profit margin to the bank. [Or, in Yates case, money to fly Gov. Bryant all over the place and STILL have a ton of corporate welfare left over.] People who know what's going on are afraid to speak out for fear of retaliation. That's a fact. It's only folks like Kingfish that can keep these basta$ds halfway honest. With prison system scandals, city of Jackson blunders/stupidity, and cronyism at the state capital being the name of the game, it's a wonder that we get anything done in this state.

clintonrebel said...

Nobody in a million years would travel more than 10 miles to Ridgeland, Pearl, Madison or Jackson to shop at a chain retail store, so why are Mississippi taxpayers footing the bill for "tax incentives" to build shopping centers? All you are doing is poaching shoppers from existing retail centers 1/2 mile down the road. That is not economic development, there is no "net new" activity whatsoever.

Bill Dees said...

More Republican corporate welfare. When will the average voter wake up and figure this out? Unless you're very wealthy or very well connected politically, you will get nothing of value from Republicans except pandering to your fears.

Anonymous said...

Thank you @11:40 for getting it. Same exact damn thing is going on in Southaven with the outlet mall project. It was grandfathered in with this insane tourism rebate program. Hopefully Kingfish will stay on it to expose some of this corruption. Remember, there is also a phase 3 to Renaissance. Can't wait to see what that brings.

Anonymous said...

I understand that this Costco Warehouse projected is #3. I believe #2 is north of #1. It could just be wherever the developers tell the mayor it is gonna be!

Anonymous said...

I believe Costco Warehouse is #3. The Costco Warehouse is so gigantic it will not fit on #2.

Anonymous said...

FTR: since Kingfish has procured the official document of this Costco Warehouse project, the #is $29.6M rather than $26.7. The developer used the $26M # at RHS meeting.

Anonymous said...

Let's see the hands raised for all you bleeding hearts out there who would not take advantage of all LEGAL avenues to increase your return on an investment. Come on! I dare you!! How about this....forgo all of those LEGAL income tax deductions on your 2015 income tax return.....forgo your 2015 homestead exemption. Hmm......all I hear is crickets chirping. Hypocrites.

Anonymous said...

I think 10:14 has been smoking something! "Dow Yoder for mayor"?!?! That idiot has been fired from EVERY job he's ever had and YOU think he should be Mayor?? You fell off the same turnip truck as Dow.

Anonymous said...

Spoken like a true self serving, special interest driven crony capitalists. You are the type of individual that made this country great. Kennedy quote in reverse. "Ask not what you can do for America, ask what America can do for you!"
As stated before; big money welfare!

Anonymous said...

3:51 Has the legislature terminated this program?

Anonymous said...

It is a shame that a seeming well intended program that could be beneficial becomes so abused by greedy opportunists.
Republican welfare is worst than democratic welfare. No doubt democratic welfare is abused, but some truly needed people do benefit. Republican welfare generally only benefits greedy, wealthy individuals who manipulate the law with their prostituting attorneys.

Anonymous said...

I wonder what the hourly rate is for a bs lawyer to blog?

Anonymous said...

4:40 u must not have our friendly bs lawyer on retainer.

Anonymous said...

If we must have corporate socialism I would rather see the money spread around the state. If we are giving money away why not give away smaller amounts like $100,000 for people to start small businesses. Costco Sams Club Wal-Mart and a whole long list can build these stores on their own and they actually do so in many areas of the country without getting a free building.

Anonymous said...

Anyone that doesn't believe the Outlet Mall at Pearl draws customers from further than 10 miles as clintonrebel claims evidently hasn't been there. Check the license plates of the cars in the parking lots. The shopping opportunities combined with the ballpark certainly do draw in 'tourism' and has also led to other development in an area that otherwise was nothing but the same old Pearl we had always known.

I'm with 3:51 - waiting to see the hands of those that don't take every advantage of programs that fit your life. Doesn't matter whether you are a Yates or a Barksdale, or just an average taxpayer like me running my own little business. If the incentive (or the deduction as mentioned by 3:51) is there, damned if I'm not going to use it.

Anonymous said...

KF, please stay on this. can we get info on the Yates deal? You know, the numbers! It would be nice to know what the financing package was.

Anonymous said...

Well....I see no volunteers, 3:51 !! You are correct. HYPOCRITES

Anonymous said...

6:05pm,

Perhaps you need to sit back and think on your thoughts. No one is giving anyone money, in this instance. The State is not collecting the sales taxes from those businesses approved. This is entirely different than underwriting a business (giving them money).

It is no different than someone with children getting a tax deduction vs someone without children... or mortgage... or educational costs... or other tax deductions.

What is different is that it generates an incentive for businesses to develop. Or we can keep taxing and red taping ourselves into prosperity.

Anonymous said...

Hey 6:05pm...Think on this...what do you call it when you give cash, hunting trips worth thousands of dollars, and free construction work at a domicile of their choosing to state officials in order for them to pass a law or strike a deal that is directly and greatly benefiting you financially?

That's a little different than the picture you are painting. Sure, the end result is as you say, but it's all those pesky illegal activities before the law was passed that is the problem.

Anonymous said...

@9:39 I call bullshit on that. The money IS a grant from the state; it's FREE MONEY. It is a payment of sales taxes collected by the businesses that would otherwise go to the state and the city, but is rebated back to the owner/development of the project, supposedly to incentivize the development that might not otherwise take place. The money ought to go to the hard, tough projects to do that might rebuild or strengthen communities that might not otherwise be done. The walmarts, costcos and designer outlet malls are being built all over the country without the need for this corporate welfare.

@3:51 & 6:32 - you are comparing apples and oranges. Certainly, most informed small businessmen or individuals will seek to legally avoid paying taxes by electing to utilize deductions, credits and other financial benefits. In this case, though, the rich and powerful few had the legislation amended in order to expand the program to totally unnecessary lengths for the sole purpose of allowing a few rich folks to get richer. While this may be perfectly legal, it doesn't necessary make it moral or ethical or fair. The purpose of the program was turned on its head in order to allow this loophole to benefit a very few people, very handsomely.

Hell, I don't know, but it sure sounds like you might work for Yates, or the Governor, or one of the beneficiaries of this ridiculous loophole. It's simply maddening that a really, really good program that could potentially create a lot of new jobs has been prostituted to the point where it will probably not be extended.

As some people have said in these blogs in the past, we in Mississippi work damn hard at trying to stay last. dammit!

Anonymous said...

The people pulling Gene McGee's chain better get him to resign, scrap this Costco project, or some folks may be wearing government issue.

Anonymous said...

Hey 10:12 am, I'm calling BS on your BS. First, the MDA program is most certainly NOT a grant, nor is it in any way the redirection of money that would otherwise go to the city, for the simple fact that there would be NO sales tax generated of nothing is built. How much sales tax does the City of Ridgeland collect currently on that patch of grass south of the Natchez Trace? ZERO. How much would they collect after 30% of the developer's investment is returned? The estimate is over $500,000 per year. In the Costco example that would take 5 years or less, so, for at least years 6-25, the city would collect $10 million more than it would if the site continues to sit there and produce nothing but hay. Wouldn't that investment by the city and state make sense to you? It does to me. And it certainly does to the municipalities.

Your statement that walmart, Costco, and designer malls are built without the application of incentives is simply wrong, or I guess just ill-informed. The same logic above on the city's return on investment can be applied to the outlet mall, Bass Pro, Trustmark Park, Northpark Mall, Target... And thousands of projects across all 50 states.

Secondly, you do realize that this "really really" good program that's being "prostituted" was originally created for the benefit of casinos, correct? Are those the types of jobs you're looking to create? Are they better than retail jobs? We'll just have to disagree on that.

Lastly, when I look at Bass Pro, Costco, and for that matter - Apple, PF Chang's, Trustmark Park, the Westin Hotel, and dozens of other stores and amenities in new local areas... I don't see Mississippi working to stay last -- on the contrary, I see at least a few people working hard to find ways to bring us up to speed with the rest of the modernized world.

Anonymous said...

6:29 - what the hell is that supposed to mean? I think you've been reading too many Facebook posts from the Dinsmorons.

Anonymous said...

11:52, do you really believe that piece of property is going to sit there and produce no revenue if Andrew Mattaice, Buster Bailey and Jim Barksdale aren't allowed to reap a $29.6 million windfall? Hell no, once the Lake Harbor flyover goes in, that will be one of the most prized retail locations in Madison County. Let somebody else develop it that did not get a sweetheart deal from MDA.

Anonymous said...

@10:12 You can twist the model all you want,but I guess we will have to disagree on a few things.
1. the MDA money is most definitely a grant; it is a grant to the developer of money that would otherwise go to the City and the State. Period.
2. you argue that this is such a great deal for the city/state, because the property is generating no sales tax right now. True. But, that property will be developed as a high-profit, high return investment EVEN WITHOUT THE SALES TAX REBATE. It doesn't need the rebate to make it work. Period. The rebate program was to be an incentive for projects that would not otherwise happen without the incentive (usually, because of an gap in the financial model, and not because it creates a huge windfall to some developers).
3. no, you are wrong; the program was NOT designed for casinos; they have NEVER been eligible. Yes, it was designed for tourist hotels connected to casinos, for sure, as well as other TOURIST attractions that do create more jobs, more revenues, more economic growth and more tax money, without canabalizing other competing retail markets. Costco development may create some new jobs, but it only redistributes where the money is being spent and where the taxes are being collected. It will clearly take business away from other competitors within a 50-75 radius of Ridgeland. It ain't gonna bring in tons of new out-of-state business, or create new economic opportunities that grow the Mississippi economic pie. Period.
4. Oh, yes, you are correct that many other states offer incentives for big box type developments - usually those are TIF deals (which COSTO will likely also use) and various smaller incentive programs. There is NO other state that I can find that offers an incentive anywhere close to giving 30% of TOTAL PROJECT COST (which is virtually unlimited when creative developers and their lawyers dig in) that we have here.
5. I will also disagree with you about casino jobs. Casinos generate TONS of jobs, many of which are high pay jobs. Certainly, the average/media pay of a casino is far greater than the average pay of a local costco employee. I don't frequent casinos myself, but a lot of people do and they spend money that they might otherwise spend in another STATE. Spending money at the local costco only means I won't spend it at the local Walmart, or worse, at the local hardware store, clothing store, etc.
6. Finally, thank you for your post. It's always nice to know the mindset of the "insiders" - you clearly are one. Whether you are lawyer, lobbyist or developer, it's pretty clear where your head is and what you're selling. So, I guess I'll just have to call BS on you calling my post BS where I called your post BS. Wow, this is fun! I suppose we can play this game all day.

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If you get tired come relax at the Fox News Tent. To gain admittance to the VIP section, bring either your Republican Party ID card or a Rebel Flag. Bringing both will entitle you to free drinks.Get your tickets now. Since this is an event for trolls, no ID is required, just bring the hate. Bring the family, Trollfest '07 is for EVERYONE!!!

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