tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447438783001404385.post3214739030635797529..comments2024-03-28T08:55:54.140-05:00Comments on Jackson Jambalaya: Renaissance applied for sales tax rebatesKingfishhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06184990110961727404noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447438783001404385.post-30768850973583345622015-08-26T09:34:33.532-05:002015-08-26T09:34:33.532-05:00@10:12 You can twist the model all you want,but I ...@10:12 You can twist the model all you want,but I guess we will have to disagree on a few things.<br />1. the MDA money is most definitely a grant; it is a grant to the developer of money that would otherwise go to the City and the State. Period.<br />2. you argue that this is such a great deal for the city/state, because the property is generating no sales tax right now. True. But, that property will be developed as a high-profit, high return investment EVEN WITHOUT THE SALES TAX REBATE. It doesn't need the rebate to make it work. Period. The rebate program was to be an incentive for projects that would not otherwise happen without the incentive (usually, because of an gap in the financial model, and not because it creates a huge windfall to some developers).<br />3. no, you are wrong; the program was NOT designed for casinos; they have NEVER been eligible. Yes, it was designed for tourist hotels connected to casinos, for sure, as well as other TOURIST attractions that do create more jobs, more revenues, more economic growth and more tax money, without canabalizing other competing retail markets. Costco development may create some new jobs, but it only redistributes where the money is being spent and where the taxes are being collected. It will clearly take business away from other competitors within a 50-75 radius of Ridgeland. It ain't gonna bring in tons of new out-of-state business, or create new economic opportunities that grow the Mississippi economic pie. Period.<br />4. Oh, yes, you are correct that many other states offer incentives for big box type developments - usually those are TIF deals (which COSTO will likely also use) and various smaller incentive programs. There is NO other state that I can find that offers an incentive anywhere close to giving 30% of TOTAL PROJECT COST (which is virtually unlimited when creative developers and their lawyers dig in) that we have here. <br />5. I will also disagree with you about casino jobs. Casinos generate TONS of jobs, many of which are high pay jobs. Certainly, the average/media pay of a casino is far greater than the average pay of a local costco employee. I don't frequent casinos myself, but a lot of people do and they spend money that they might otherwise spend in another STATE. Spending money at the local costco only means I won't spend it at the local Walmart, or worse, at the local hardware store, clothing store, etc.<br />6. Finally, thank you for your post. It's always nice to know the mindset of the "insiders" - you clearly are one. Whether you are lawyer, lobbyist or developer, it's pretty clear where your head is and what you're selling. So, I guess I'll just have to call BS on you calling my post BS where I called your post BS. Wow, this is fun! I suppose we can play this game all day. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447438783001404385.post-58607603828286351542015-08-26T00:38:54.653-05:002015-08-26T00:38:54.653-05:0011:52, do you really believe that piece of propert...11:52, do you really believe that piece of property is going to sit there and produce no revenue if Andrew Mattaice, Buster Bailey and Jim Barksdale aren't allowed to reap a $29.6 million windfall? Hell no, once the Lake Harbor flyover goes in, that will be one of the most prized retail locations in Madison County. Let somebody else develop it that did not get a sweetheart deal from MDA. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447438783001404385.post-22010949440653874852015-08-25T23:55:13.697-05:002015-08-25T23:55:13.697-05:006:29 - what the hell is that supposed to mean? I ...6:29 - what the hell is that supposed to mean? I think you've been reading too many Facebook posts from the Dinsmorons.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447438783001404385.post-56838214986566527112015-08-25T23:52:39.492-05:002015-08-25T23:52:39.492-05:00Hey 10:12 am, I'm calling BS on your BS. Firs...Hey 10:12 am, I'm calling BS on your BS. First, the MDA program is most certainly NOT a grant, nor is it in any way the redirection of money that would otherwise go to the city, for the simple fact that there would be NO sales tax generated of nothing is built. How much sales tax does the City of Ridgeland collect currently on that patch of grass south of the Natchez Trace? ZERO. How much would they collect after 30% of the developer's investment is returned? The estimate is over $500,000 per year. In the Costco example that would take 5 years or less, so, for at least years 6-25, the city would collect $10 million more than it would if the site continues to sit there and produce nothing but hay. Wouldn't that investment by the city and state make sense to you? It does to me. And it certainly does to the municipalities. <br /><br />Your statement that walmart, Costco, and designer malls are built without the application of incentives is simply wrong, or I guess just ill-informed. The same logic above on the city's return on investment can be applied to the outlet mall, Bass Pro, Trustmark Park, Northpark Mall, Target... And thousands of projects across all 50 states.<br /><br />Secondly, you do realize that this "really really" good program that's being "prostituted" was originally created for the benefit of casinos, correct? Are those the types of jobs you're looking to create? Are they better than retail jobs? We'll just have to disagree on that.<br /><br />Lastly, when I look at Bass Pro, Costco, and for that matter - Apple, PF Chang's, Trustmark Park, the Westin Hotel, and dozens of other stores and amenities in new local areas... I don't see Mississippi working to stay last -- on the contrary, I see at least a few people working hard to find ways to bring us up to speed with the rest of the modernized world. <br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447438783001404385.post-70579731134296015612015-08-24T18:29:20.503-05:002015-08-24T18:29:20.503-05:00The people pulling Gene McGee's chain better g...The people pulling Gene McGee's chain better get him to resign, scrap this Costco project, or some folks may be wearing government issue.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447438783001404385.post-18202126690016123862015-08-24T10:12:59.048-05:002015-08-24T10:12:59.048-05:00@9:39 I call bullshit on that. The money IS a gra...@9:39 I call bullshit on that. The money IS a grant from the state; it's FREE MONEY. It is a payment of sales taxes collected by the businesses that would otherwise go to the state and the city, but is rebated back to the owner/development of the project, supposedly to incentivize the development that might not otherwise take place. The money ought to go to the hard, tough projects to do that might rebuild or strengthen communities that might not otherwise be done. The walmarts, costcos and designer outlet malls are being built all over the country without the need for this corporate welfare. <br /><br />@3:51 & 6:32 - you are comparing apples and oranges. Certainly, most informed small businessmen or individuals will seek to legally avoid paying taxes by electing to utilize deductions, credits and other financial benefits. In this case, though, the rich and powerful few had the legislation amended in order to expand the program to totally unnecessary lengths for the sole purpose of allowing a few rich folks to get richer. While this may be perfectly legal, it doesn't necessary make it moral or ethical or fair. The purpose of the program was turned on its head in order to allow this loophole to benefit a very few people, very handsomely. <br /><br />Hell, I don't know, but it sure sounds like you might work for Yates, or the Governor, or one of the beneficiaries of this ridiculous loophole. It's simply maddening that a really, really good program that could potentially create a lot of new jobs has been prostituted to the point where it will probably not be extended. <br /><br />As some people have said in these blogs in the past, we in Mississippi work damn hard at trying to stay last. dammit!<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447438783001404385.post-64397327584945221952015-08-24T09:55:19.307-05:002015-08-24T09:55:19.307-05:00Hey 6:05pm...Think on this...what do you call it w...Hey 6:05pm...Think on this...what do you call it when you give cash, hunting trips worth thousands of dollars, and free construction work at a domicile of their choosing to state officials in order for them to pass a law or strike a deal that is directly and greatly benefiting you financially? <br /><br />That's a little different than the picture you are painting. Sure, the end result is as you say, but it's all those pesky illegal activities before the law was passed that is the problem. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447438783001404385.post-10598170987305416832015-08-24T09:39:12.371-05:002015-08-24T09:39:12.371-05:006:05pm,
Perhaps you need to sit back and think on...6:05pm,<br /><br />Perhaps you need to sit back and think on your thoughts. No one is giving anyone money, in this instance. The State is not collecting the sales taxes from those businesses approved. This is entirely different than underwriting a business (giving them money).<br /><br />It is no different than someone with children getting a tax deduction vs someone without children... or mortgage... or educational costs... or other tax deductions.<br /><br />What is different is that it generates an incentive for businesses to develop. Or we can keep taxing and red taping ourselves into prosperity.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447438783001404385.post-3315561370392053162015-08-24T08:28:11.168-05:002015-08-24T08:28:11.168-05:00Well....I see no volunteers, 3:51 !! You are corr...Well....I see no volunteers, 3:51 !! You are correct. HYPOCRITES Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447438783001404385.post-369545507840182722015-08-23T19:46:24.619-05:002015-08-23T19:46:24.619-05:00KF, please stay on this. can we get info on the Y...KF, please stay on this. can we get info on the Yates deal? You know, the numbers! It would be nice to know what the financing package was.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447438783001404385.post-60996399863959881102015-08-23T18:32:46.519-05:002015-08-23T18:32:46.519-05:00Anyone that doesn't believe the Outlet Mall at...Anyone that doesn't believe the Outlet Mall at Pearl draws customers from further than 10 miles as clintonrebel claims evidently hasn't been there. Check the license plates of the cars in the parking lots. The shopping opportunities combined with the ballpark certainly do draw in 'tourism' and has also led to other development in an area that otherwise was nothing but the same old Pearl we had always known.<br /><br />I'm with 3:51 - waiting to see the hands of those that don't take every advantage of programs that fit your life. Doesn't matter whether you are a Yates or a Barksdale, or just an average taxpayer like me running my own little business. If the incentive (or the deduction as mentioned by 3:51) is there, damned if I'm not going to use it. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447438783001404385.post-40398133747359810702015-08-23T18:05:53.784-05:002015-08-23T18:05:53.784-05:00If we must have corporate socialism I would rather...If we must have corporate socialism I would rather see the money spread around the state. If we are giving money away why not give away smaller amounts like $100,000 for people to start small businesses. Costco Sams Club Wal-Mart and a whole long list can build these stores on their own and they actually do so in many areas of the country without getting a free building.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447438783001404385.post-53663381051867700642015-08-23T17:10:37.943-05:002015-08-23T17:10:37.943-05:004:40 u must not have our friendly bs lawyer on ret...4:40 u must not have our friendly bs lawyer on retainer.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447438783001404385.post-40857532833437820052015-08-23T17:01:10.854-05:002015-08-23T17:01:10.854-05:00I wonder what the hourly rate is for a bs lawyer t...I wonder what the hourly rate is for a bs lawyer to blog?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447438783001404385.post-17063017704653918902015-08-23T16:58:46.539-05:002015-08-23T16:58:46.539-05:00It is a shame that a seeming well intended program...It is a shame that a seeming well intended program that could be beneficial becomes so abused by greedy opportunists.<br />Republican welfare is worst than democratic welfare. No doubt democratic welfare is abused, but some truly needed people do benefit. Republican welfare generally only benefits greedy, wealthy individuals who manipulate the law with their prostituting attorneys.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447438783001404385.post-42175632908072321362015-08-23T16:40:40.569-05:002015-08-23T16:40:40.569-05:003:51 Has the legislature terminated this program?3:51 Has the legislature terminated this program?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447438783001404385.post-26314857521781410662015-08-23T16:12:16.790-05:002015-08-23T16:12:16.790-05:00Spoken like a true self serving, special interest ...Spoken like a true self serving, special interest driven crony capitalists. You are the type of individual that made this country great. Kennedy quote in reverse. "Ask not what you can do for America, ask what America can do for you!"<br />As stated before; big money welfare!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447438783001404385.post-42169038973975684932015-08-23T15:53:53.726-05:002015-08-23T15:53:53.726-05:00I think 10:14 has been smoking something! "D...I think 10:14 has been smoking something! "Dow Yoder for mayor"?!?! That idiot has been fired from EVERY job he's ever had and YOU think he should be Mayor?? You fell off the same turnip truck as Dow.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447438783001404385.post-17139858287379334402015-08-23T15:51:43.254-05:002015-08-23T15:51:43.254-05:00Let's see the hands raised for all you bleedin...Let's see the hands raised for all you bleeding hearts out there who would not take advantage of all LEGAL avenues to increase your return on an investment. Come on! I dare you!! How about this....forgo all of those LEGAL income tax deductions on your 2015 income tax return.....forgo your 2015 homestead exemption. Hmm......all I hear is crickets chirping. Hypocrites. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447438783001404385.post-20584839295516819692015-08-23T15:42:46.322-05:002015-08-23T15:42:46.322-05:00FTR: since Kingfish has procured the official docu...FTR: since Kingfish has procured the official document of this Costco Warehouse project, the #is $29.6M rather than $26.7. The developer used the $26M # at RHS meeting.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447438783001404385.post-73138072685230117352015-08-23T15:26:13.205-05:002015-08-23T15:26:13.205-05:00I believe Costco Warehouse is #3. The Costco Wareh...I believe Costco Warehouse is #3. The Costco Warehouse is so gigantic it will not fit on #2.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447438783001404385.post-82242092554182148322015-08-23T15:22:35.271-05:002015-08-23T15:22:35.271-05:00I understand that this Costco Warehouse projected...I understand that this Costco Warehouse projected is #3. I believe #2 is north of #1. It could just be wherever the developers tell the mayor it is gonna be!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447438783001404385.post-32975914222793526042015-08-23T14:25:28.939-05:002015-08-23T14:25:28.939-05:00Thank you @11:40 for getting it. Same exact damn t...Thank you @11:40 for getting it. Same exact damn thing is going on in Southaven with the outlet mall project. It was grandfathered in with this insane tourism rebate program. Hopefully Kingfish will stay on it to expose some of this corruption. Remember, there is also a phase 3 to Renaissance. Can't wait to see what that brings. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447438783001404385.post-4480277143791623012015-08-23T14:19:42.372-05:002015-08-23T14:19:42.372-05:00More Republican corporate welfare. When will the a...More Republican corporate welfare. When will the average voter wake up and figure this out? Unless you're very wealthy or very well connected politically, you will get nothing of value from Republicans except pandering to your fears.Bill Deesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447438783001404385.post-71376546746930423472015-08-23T13:38:13.493-05:002015-08-23T13:38:13.493-05:00Nobody in a million years would travel more than 1...Nobody in a million years would travel more than 10 miles to Ridgeland, Pearl, Madison or Jackson to shop at a chain retail store, so why are Mississippi taxpayers footing the bill for "tax incentives" to build shopping centers? All you are doing is poaching shoppers from existing retail centers 1/2 mile down the road. That is not economic development, there is no "net new" activity whatsoever.clintonrebelnoreply@blogger.com