True the Vote and several Mississippi residents asked a U.S. District Court in Oxford to issue an injunction against Secretary of State Egbert Hosemann and the Mississippi Republican Party. True the Vote asks the court to declare it has a "right to inspect" the voter rolls used in the June 24 election and all accompanying materials. The plaintiffs also ask the court to prevent the Republican Party from certifying the election
The plaintiffs claim they were "denied access" to Mississippi's voter rolls when they sought to investigate alleged "irregularities" in the June 24 Mississippi Republican primary run-off election. One plaintiff, True the Vote, claims such denials infringe upon its rights under the National Voter Registration Act.
Roy Nicholson and others state they were
granted access to county voter rolls, but were advised that the records would not be produced in unredacted form. Rather, the Individual Plaintiffs were told Mississippi law required the county to redact each voter’s date of birth from the rolls at the Plaintiffs’ cost. Plaintiffs incurred the cost of redacting this information in violation of the NVRA.
They further allege that when they did obtain the redacted records, they
perceived certain irregularities in them. Specifically, the Individual Plaintiffs observed duplicate, missing and/or written entries in the voter rolls indicating that voters who had voted in Mississippi’s Democratic Primary later voted in the Republican Primary Run-Off....It seems the plaintiffs have a particular problem with Mississippi's Public Records laws (Welcome to my world- KF):
Having noted irregularities in the voter polls, the Individual Plaintiffs now suspect
that their lawful votes in the Republican Primary Run-Off have been impermissibly diluted by unlawful ballots cast in violation of the prohibition on “double-voting.”...
Mississippi law also requires counties to maintain accurate voter rolls and poll books for general and primary elections. But, Mississippi law imposes additional restrictions on public access to records concerning the accuracy and currency of voter registration rolls, such that only certain aspects of the voter rolls are permitted to be copied and inspected by the public. In particular, Mississippi law requires parties inspecting records under the NVRA to bear the cost of redacting “exempted,” identifying information from the voter rolls....The plaintiffs argue that such information is not exempted under the NVRA and thus pre-empts the Mississippi public records laws. True the Vote states on its website:
"All we are asking is that the MS State Republican Party follow the law; allow their designated county representatives to inspect the poll books and ballots, give them the review time they are permitted by law, and allow them to uphold their responsibility to MS voters," True the Vote President Catherine Engelbrecht said. "True the Vote has been inundated with reports from voters across Mississippi who are outraged to see the integrity of this election being undermined so that politicos can get back to business as usual. Enough is enough.”....
On June 25, the organization formally requested that MS Republican Party Chairman Joe Nosef delay certification of the election and share voting records for independent review. Finding no assistance from the state party, TTV and the collected 13 plaintiffs were left no option but to pursue the matter in federal court.
True the Vote’s lawsuit consists of three counts:
Count One: Violation of NVRA’s Public Disclosure Provision. Shortly before the Republican Primary Runoff Election, True the Vote, via its volunteer base, made a valid and timely request to review voter rolls and poll books under the NVRA, but it was denied access to those records.
Count Two: Individual Plaintiffs Allege a Violation of NVRA Based on Conflict with State Laws. Plaintiffs seek a declaration that the NVRA preempts any state requirement calling for public election information to be redacted at the cost of the requestor.
Count Three: Individual Plaintiffs Allege an Equal Protection Violation. Discovering potential instances of “double-voting” between Democratic and Republican primaries are unlawful dilutions of individual votes.
The case has been assigned to Judge Michael Mills and Magistrate S. Allan Alexander.
58 comments:
Figures. A bunch of out of state lawyers, and the one local has a bar number low enough that makes me believe he's old enough to remember reconstruction.
Some republicans hijacked the kim wade shows signal today..
Why even bother suing Delbert at this point? I thought this was a party primary under the control of the party and the challenge clock doesn't even start until the state party sends the state numbers to the SOS? Seems a little premature to drag the SOS into it.
Go for it! So glad that this is happening and before November.......it's the only way to stop crooks from doing this! .... At least for a little while. Anyone with integrity would want this to be done regardless of what party they are with (or at least I would hope they would). It is NOT RIGHT to play these political games and withhold information that should be available to the public. I have dealt with an issue to obtain public docs and agencies played power games and asked me lots of questions and delay tactics....then I gave up....it was not worth the fight. In this case, this could impact our future and it IS worth the fight! Anyone that would be against this group finding out if there were indeed illegal actions.......well, I would not want to be associated with you. Let's get to the bottom of this!
don't you guys want to know what a judge decides? regardless of what side you're on? put away your party hats for a minute! if there are indeed illegal actions here--do you not want to know because its bad for your party? because this could have been the other way around.....and may happen to your party in the future (in a negative way) . be open minded and don't have such tunnel vision- you are viewing this from your side of the fence. step back and view it from both sides.
He is from the Free State of Jones and served as guerrilla chieftain of the Rosin Heels against the Jackson Overlords in 1864. His State of Jones bar number is BR 549, ironically.
there are no lawyers in Mississippi that can go up against that power pack- most of them probably voted for Cochran. in this case it would probably be better to get out of state lawyers.
The requirement for redaction of DOB from voter records was always a train wreck waiting to happen. I protested when the law was enacted in 1997, to no avail.
It makes obtaining poll books very difficult, and makes conducting voter fraud investigations well-nigh impossible.
As a person who has conducted many election reviews and worked many election contests, I can tell you that it is impossible to do so without DOB information on the voters. This is so because so many voters in a county will have the same names, addresses are often incorrect, etc.
In order to correctly identify voters, you really do need DOB. But under this redaction scheme, you are prohibited from getting them.
I don't know whether the lawsuit's claim that NVRA requires that DOB be disclosed is correct or not. I hope it is, because we need to restore the ability of candidates to investigate voter irregularities in Mississippi.
Also, I question whether they sued the right people. After all, none of the named defendants has actually denied them access to anything. Hosemann and the MS Republican Party don't have custody or control over any of the records they seek to obtain.
I'll bet she is the Belle of The Grove.
what good was the date of birth prior to voter ID to confirm the voter at voting time? I can see where they may check the driver's license dob against the book ....but before voter ID how would they have confirmed that anyway? they were only confirming your name and address when you walked up to the table ...at least in Madison County. I am almost 60 years old and no one has ever asked for my date of birth to confirm me as the voter from my household. Was that supposed to be done? help me understand how this confirms the voter at the time of voting (prior to the voter ID) ? I really don't like my date of birth being on public record to tell you the truth but then again I could see how they would need it to confirm the ages if two people had the same name at the same address.
The AG will represent Hosemann. A lawsuit like this will take years.
Hey BAggers, whendpply differential the judge rules in favor of the winner, will you go away?
Don't bother Mr. Hosemann. He is on the coast.
To 5:37 pm
Great post thank you for putting the spotlight on integrity!!!
No, they probably won't go away sadly.......
Too much mullah to be made..
Points to prove...
You get the idea....
This gives a whole new meaning to " the dog days of summer"
Mercury will officially be out of retrograde July 2nd, thank heavens!
( that's a good thing)
Mississippi is in the Fifth Circuit. The Fourth Circuit holding would not apply to this lawsuit.
6:21 I have been asked my dob when I vote regularly to ensure that the proper voter is being marked in the pollbook. That's because my father and I have the same first and last names, as well as the same middle initial.
MS CODE Sect. 23-15-125 specifically requires pollbooks to show the DOB of every voter for proper identification.
As for investigating voter fraud: the DOB is necessary to match up voters and voting materials. This is because the DOB resolves conflicts between numerous persons with the same names and sometimes even the same addresses appearing on the voter rolls.
I know that someone who hasn't had to perform these type of analyses might have a hard time understanding the need for DOBs, but they are necessary to conduct voter fraud or election contests.
Lokk folks the election is over. The democrats won. Thad cant win. McDaniels cant win. Its all over but the kicking and screaming. Even if there is a new republican primary the republican will be defeated by Childers. I voted in this primary and runoff but know that this will now be a democratic seat once again.
Maybe not but they'll read that opinion
People are pissed and talking about voting Democrat! Who is Childers and will he at conservative like Manchin? A full investigation might be needed so this primary election passes the smell test. I have no dog in this hunt. It just looks so messy.
It is not true that rulings in one district have no effect on future rulings in others. There's that thang called precedent.
This whole thing is being done to keep the Cowboy Governor from attending a midnight, candlelight meeting during which he inadvertently certifies the election and laters says he did so in error, but too late then.
The people who want accuracy, accountability and a legal election result certified simply want what's right. The rest of you embiciles just want Thad to be reseated and allowed to nap through the term. Wake him when it's time to grunt and vote. Harry Reid is not happy with this latest legal challenge.
Wow, maybe the good news in this move is that it will allow a federal judge to infuse some order into at least some aspects of this mess. Mills doesn't mess around, so everyone should be on their best behavior if they know what is good for them.
That's the only good news I can think of at this point. This has become so damaging to everyone involved. I hope there is some back room talking going on somewhere between rational adults trying to resolve this.
Is there any political figure (state or national) that could step in here and bring all parties to the table?
Counsel not admitted in the state of Mississippi appear to have violated MRAP 46(b). See In re Williams and St. Martin v Hixon et al. (citations omitted). Their names can not appear on the pleadings until they have been admitted pro hac vice, a process which at best, takes several weeks.
Counsel not admitted in the state of Mississippi appear to have violated MRAP 46(b). See In re Williams and St. Martin v Hixon et al. (citations omitted). Their names can not appear on the pleadings until they have been admitted pro hac vice, a process which at best, takes several weeks.
Interesting thought - if the 5th Circuit ultimately rules in this case and its ruling is contrary to the 4th Circuit opinion, that creates a split in circuits that forms one basis for an appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court. This battle may have a looooong time to go. That should be an awful thought to both sides.
I'm quite happy that my GOP friends think I'm a Democrat and my Democratic friends think I'm a Republican and my Tea Party friends think me apolitical.
My husband is very happy thinking I voted just like he expected me to vote. I do sometimes but not all that often!
That some yahoos with no authority other than that given them by McDaniel ( he did RUN as a Republican) or they take upon themselves can see how I voted in any election bothers me.
What if one of them tells my husband he saw my name?!
If some Tea Party guy who employs others sees the name of one of his employees voting in the wrong primary who he thought one of " his kinda folks", will he fire him?
It's nobody's damn business how I choose to vote! Not even my husband's! And, certainly it's not Donna's or Joe's or Roy's etc.! If I wanted them to know how I voted, I'd tell 'em!!!!!
As a lifelong Democrat, I must say this is very entertaining.
The Poll Books being reviewed in Hinds County and shown on Television last week clearly showed Date of Birth and voter names. These are public records 8:46. No one knows how you voted but they sure can find out which Primary you voted in. General Elections are different.
Mayfield's family suing the Madison PD is ludicrous. He was out of jail on a $250K bond. That would have allowed the MPD to contact him at any time which means step onto his property. What are they thinking?
Didn't Chris vote democrat in 03? Wonder how much they paid him?
FEC now investigating Cochran
A trumped up bond for trumped up charges. Ridiculous. I hope they sue the crap out of all involved. Shame on you for talking about a dead man that was a political pawn. Mary, is that you?
I am thinking more and more that Childers will be elected. He is almost as conservative as Cochran anyway. The GOP mess is completely destroying both McDaniel and Cochran and both are now very badly damaged regardless of what of any of the growing number of criminal and civil court cases may be.
Reviewing the website for Beirne Maynard, Plaintiffs' counsel, I noted that they previously represented Gov. Rick Perry in election related litigation. Counsel listed on the Complaint include a former U.S. Department of Justice attorney and a former Texas state legislator. The firm website lists a good bit of experience in election litigation. So, maybe the adults are finally entering the room.
The more I think about it, I think it is a good thing a lawsuit was filed. Hopefully, people will have respect for the process. I know of no reason anyone should question Mills' integrity on this.
"That some yahoos with no authority other than that given them by McDaniel ( he did RUN as a Republican) or they take upon themselves can see how I voted in any election bothers me.
What if one of them tells my husband he saw my name?!
If some Tea Party guy who employs others sees the name of one of his employees voting in the wrong primary who he thought one of " his kinda folks", will he fire him?
It's nobody's damn business how I choose to vote! Not even my husband's! And, certainly it's not Donna's or Joe's or Roy's etc.! If I wanted them to know how I voted, I'd tell 'em!!!!!"
I hadn't thought about those angles but these are very profound points.
>>>It's nobody's damn business how I choose to vote!<<<
That's right, but WHEN you choose to vote is a different matter. A voter's registration status and participation (or non participation) in an election or referendum has always been public record iirc.
Why was this filed in Oxford division? Delbert is in Hinds County and the Republican Party does not have an address listed. They complain about actions in Rankin and Hinds...both in Jackson Division.
Clearly they want to shy away from possibly getting an AA Judge...Wingate and Reeves scared them.
Mills should dismiss this or transfer it to Jackson division for assignment.
DUH 9:10 pm Did it occur to you my husband would get a clue if I didn't vote in HIS favorite party's primary?!!!
And, I'm a woman. No damn body needs to know my age either unless I choose to tell them!!!!
What are you, a Yankee?
Don't you know a woman doesn't necessarily want her age advertised?
Or are you photographing women in their bedrooms without permission as well?
@ 8:34, This suit was filed in Federal District Court so the Mississippi Rules of Appellate Procedure would not control, the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure and Uniform Local Rules for the Northern District of Mississippi would. And it is common practice for out of state attorneys to be included on an initial pleading with the notation that a Pro Hac admission motion will be filed. My guess is these guys will get pro hac admissions in the next couple of days.
11:09 PM what is your point????
I voted on election day, that's WHEN.
I voted in the same party primary the first time as I did in the runoff.
These jerks don't need to know my name or DOB or frankly WHICH party I chose! They only need to know that I didn't vote in for a candidate in different parties!
There are ten ways from Sunday to verify that if that's what they are after without having every TP Tom, Dick, Harry, and Beulah Lou looking at the books!
And, frankly, some of McDaniels folks have seemed to be either ethical or stable! Who knows what they might do with a name, DOB and precinct? Find the house? Recognize a prominent person's name and try to smear it because they voted in the other party primary?
And, frankly, I couldn't have voted illegally if I wanted to which is why I don't believe this " irregularity" nonsense! And, that not one whit of credible evidence of irregularity has been presented.
Just rumors started by sore heads or paid operatives and people who anonymously claim to have voted in Hinds County?
I'm not surprised we have more out of state troublemakers coming in here either!
Who are these " True the Vote" people who didn't exist until when? last week?
Where'd they get the money to pay out of state lawyers and their expenses?
Do you have any idea how idiotic we look to the rest of the country? " Can't y'all even hold an election without making a mess of it?" " Can't y'all get along at all down there?" " Still can't stand having blacks vote down there?"
9:51, who is your source on that?
To the harpy woman at 11:28 who just will not shut up and says this:
"And, frankly, I couldn't have voted illegally if I wanted to which is why I don't believe this " irregularity" nonsense! And, that not one whit of credible evidence of irregularity has been presented."
Newsflash: This is sort of the whole reason for the investigation of records; to discover whether or not there is credible evidence to present. Ya reckon? You claim there IS none, yet you bitch about the process by which that determination is to be made.
And you conclude by referring to us as 'down there' which proves you to be lying when you say you vote here.
@3:50 RIF
Comprehension helps too. She was making a point about what "the rest of the country" is saying about us, not what she is saying.
So, maybe an apology is in order for calling her a liar? Or are you a McDaniel supporter?
True the Vote was begging for gas money via social media outlets last week on Election Day. Keep on fleecin' them rubes, y'all.
I know of no reason anyone should question Mills' integrity on this.~?
For those with obvious short term memory loss, there could be no worse selection than Mike Mills for this case. Mike Mills' "bent of mind" was most evident in the 1997 Beckwith appeal to the Mississippi State Supreme court when Beckwith appealed his conviction for Evers' murder before Judge Hilburn's Kangaroo court. Judge Mills wrote the majority opinion sanctioning the malicious prosecution by the now impeached Hinds County prosecutors, arguing that a thirty-one year delay between the murder and the third trial did NOT constitute a violation of Beckwith's Sixth Amendment guarantee of a speedy trial. That circus-like trial at Batesville was rife with reversal error as revealed in C.J Dan Lee's separate dissenting opinion and joining Justice Sullivan's "dissent in part" opinion on the "discovery" errors that were so rampant.
Judge Mills' name was submitted to Bush by by Senators Cochran and Lott for appointment to the Federal court. The then State senator Nunlee claimed that Mills' selection would send a message that there was no statute of limitation on murder in Mississippi... a dead giveaway that Mills' selection was reward for nailing Beckwith to the cross.
Mills should recuse himself from this case. He will not bite the hand that feeds him.
http://www.coxwelllaw.com/files/DeLaBeckwith-V-State-1997.pdf
http://djournal.com/news/mills-nominated/
Where does one go to register as a Republican or register as a Democrat? I'm confused. And is it legal for me to change my mind about who I want to vote for from one election to the next. I thought our founding fathers principled beliefs in freedom and the Constitution, and Ronald Reagan and fiscal conscientiousness and a whole bunch of other nice sounding phrases ensured that I am free to vote for whoever the freak I want to!
7:36 must be under twenty five. Google is your friend.
Do posters like July 1, 2014 at 5:34 PM really actually believe that our Secretary of State has no role in elections that are party primaries?
This whole circle jerk reminds me of the kangaroo court of an all white jury in the fifties.
Hypothetically, IF McDaniel wins this contest and has a new election and IF he manages to win, will the Cochran/Barbour team throw their support to McDaniel in the general election. I'd be willing to wager they would not; because it will not be in line with what the Republicans are doing nationally. In their minds, Demoncrats are better than the TP. Sad.
Well I have heard many tea party people say they will vote democrat instead of thad. No matter who the republican is Childers wins. All because of the nuts.
I can see where Clayton Kelly was a pawn but an experienced attorney being made a pawn? If he was bamboozled, who's fault is that?
Thanks 6:30 am, you are absolutely right.
Those are direct quotes from out of state people I know who have seen or read about this circus we're having.
The conversation or email usually begins with " what the hell is going on down there?" or words to that effect.
And 3:50 am you betcha I'll bitch about the process. I'm ok ( or can't you infer) with a process where there is redaction and where simply the names on the GOP runoff are compared to the names voting in the Democratic primary.
Since so damn few voted in the Democratic primary, I expect that could be done with scanning and by computer. But, NO...the McDaniels people want their grubby little hands on unredacted information.
I saw McDaniel minions swarm poor Ms. Dunn.
Let the court appoint some lawyers from all three camps including the Childers camp and have them swear as officers of the court to keep all information other than any confirmed violations in crossover confidential!
You can arrest any bastards that voted illegally as far as I'm concerned.
But,that's not what's happening.
Nothing rational is being proposed by the " my way or the highway" people and those who " react first and think later" !
John@732 thanks! I appreciate your information and for your patience with my question. it refreshing not to be cursed or belittled when we have concerns or questions on this site. so thanks again....
My thoughts ? I think if they have a special election we are going to see the largest turn-out of Democrats ever voting for Cochran. I think every Democrat that did not vote the first time is going to vote for Cochran because they still have it instilled in their minds the slander spread about the other party being racist . Once someone is labeled it is difficult to get that seed removed from their mind. They will all vote to prove a point that does not exist. It is sad, sad that people stoop to this level - no integrity. And then Chris will lose again because of the initial slander and payoffs (if this is factual). And if it deems to be true, I just cannot understand for the life of me why this would not be considered a criminal activity- it is fraud - it is bribery - and the other party should not be allowed to be a candidate) --- just very disappointed......
7/1@846 hate to tell ya' this. ..but ask the city or county you live in to do something for you like for instance your ditch needs to be cleaned. believe me.....sometimes aldermen or supervisors will look at the voting book to see if you voted before he fools with your request or may put you on the back burner. but I see your point......one of my highschool friends got very upset with me because I did not vote her dads party in the primary. yes, she looked it up. It was nothing personal but she took it very personal.
3:18 pm your anecdotal experience doesn't cause me to change my mind. I don't have to deal with alderman or supervisors. Frankly, I didn't know we had alderman positions in Hinds Co. but after your post, I see Clinton has them. I don't live in Clinton.
And, I think you should have a talk with your Circuit Clerk.
6:30 assumes the position of apologist and spokesperson for the nutty woman who proclaims us 'down there'. It ain't my job to try to figure out what she meant while you claim she was speaking as if she were someone else while making her own point about others....sort of.
I suppose you can also explain her ire at conducting a fact finding investigation while claiming no facts exist. Do you and she not realize the value of fact finding? Or were you going to get around to that later?
That woman has harped several times now about no evidence existing yet she pees her draws at the prospect of a search for it. Something smells fishy and it ain't just the draws.
When hearing that name Mike Mills, I cannot help but remembering H. L. Mencken's
observation on judges:A judge is a law student who marks his own examination papers. Or that old addage that Mississippi has the best judges that money can buy.
Mike Mills won't bite the hand that feeds him.
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