Sunday, February 25, 2018

It just gets worse

The Parkland Coward (I wanted to use another word that was more alliteration-friendly) apparently wore a bullet-proof vest during the massacre.  You can't make this up.  Watch the video.


47 comments:

Anonymous said...

This guy and the other deputies aren't stupid. A pistol is no match for an AR15. They wanted to get home to their families. What's wrong about that. He and others took an oath to protect and serve. No oath says you should put your self in a position to die.

Anonymous said...

Shooter wasn't shooting an AR-15.

Anonymous said...

I'll tell you what I tell my students/trainees. You are DUTY BOUND to engage an active shooter. We put it up, hand it to them in writing, and make them sign it. If you can't do that, leave your shield and your weapon, and get out, literally.

No shame, just get out of the business before some innocent, like here, dies because you thought it was a great pension plan or second job. You took an oath to protect and to serve.

That means you get a badge, a gun, and the ability to use deadly force when necessary. You get body armor, training, and backup. You just don't get a guarantee that you'll have a video game encounter instead of risking your life.

And in this case, and in Newtown and Parkland, unarmed teachers, principals, coaches, and bystanders have gone down fighting for kids. But, in a significant portion of active shooters, intervention has saved lives.

If you can't risk your life, with body armor and a handgun, for trapped unarmed children who are being slaughtered, you're a poor excuse for a human.

You fight with what you got, not with what you think you need or waiting an hour for "SWAT" or the mall ninjas in "the 'War Pig." Or get out. Too many better applicants or civilians can replace you.

In Pearl, a non-cop assistant principal took on a killer with a long gun, using a handgun. Why is it that he is brave enough to do what needs to be done, but a 30 year Deputy isn't?

Anonymous said...

11:13, never let facts or truth get in the way of constructing your narrative,

Anonymous said...

@11:13

no, not stupid.

just a coward.

Anonymous said...

The coaches weren’t armed yet they went to protect their students they loved . Says enough for me. If you get into law enforcement just to write tickets maybe you need to go to Mayberry. The world is a different place . It takes soldiers to be soldiers, Law enforcement to be law enforcement. We in the other sector have our jobs to do. If we were all soldiers or law enforcement the world wouldn’t work. Do you get what I’m saying? Not everyone can do those jobs, therefore everyone does what they are called to do whether it is a doctor, lawyer, teacher, fireman, factory worker.. ..... we all have our place in life we are called for. But when you take an oath to serve and protect you do have to place yourself in the line of fire. Just think how many people he would have saved had he and others gone in ARMED!. The teachers and coaches were not yet they tried to help. Respect law enforcement. I wouldn’t do what they do and they certainly wouldn’t do what I do. It’s a choice in life. 17 died, but remember, it wasn’t a gun that caused this but a mentally deranged human who had been on the radar and yet NO ONE did anything. I don’t know...sounds like a damn conspiracy to me.....Las Vegas shooting? Conspiracy.... have any of you heard the truth yet?

Anonymous said...

11:13

Your comments convince me more than ever it is immensely important for a WELL armed citizenry with an abundance of ammo. As you explain those who are paid and trained may make the decision to sit back and do nothing. Or he was told to hold his position by superiors. Either way it says those hired to do the job may decide not to fulfill their purpose of employment. It is a sad state of affairs. Also I will add not a single weapon I own from Armalite rifle on down has leaped up and shot a single living soul. Sir you put me on heightened alert.

Anonymous said...

I completely understand the anger and disappointment in the way the deputy reacted to the situation but.... the deputy may not be the only one to blame, if at all. Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth. The deputy may have had a plan but he wasn't expecting the punch. Yes he took an oath and put on the badge and gun but look around you. How often do you see a police officer and think he or she doesn't look very prepared. We allow police departments to place officers in schools to protect our children with minimum training. Some of the these officers barely meet the requirements for physical fitness and weapons training. I have tons of respect for anyone who puts on a badge but not everyone should be allowed to where a badge. Just like you wouldn't want your house built by a guy who can't swing a hammer. The departments select these officers and place them in the positions they are in. In some cases the school resource officers are selected because they don't excel in other areas. If we want warriors guarding our children then we need to hold the departments accountable for selecting and training warriors to be placed in schools. Maybe I'm wrong in this situation. Maybe deputy Peterson had plenty of training. My guess is he met the minimum standard. If this is true who is really at fault here? The deputy? The department? The people who set the standard? Well trained warriors cost money too. In some cases school resource officers make less money than patrol officers. If we want the best protection for our children then we need to hold accountable the people responsible for selecting, training, and paying those officers. Or we can just blame the officer/deputy when he fails even though wasn't prepared for the job.

Anonymous said...

Seems like this should be a crime. I know we don't like to prosecute police officers, but I'd love to see a dereliction of duty law put on the books with a very serious prison term. He should have to face the victims' families in court and explain his cowardly for actions to them. Also, 11:26 not sure where you heard that, everything I've seen said it was an AR15 style rifle. USA Today reported a Smith & Wesson M&P 15 .223.

Anonymous said...

then that deputy should have been selling insurance or furniture. he signed up to enforce the law instead. when he was assigned duty at the school, he KNEW he might find himself in that situation and he should have quit then instead of waiting until the incident was in progress to quiver behind a concrete wall. BROWARD COWARD DEPARTMENT

Anonymous said...

In close quarters, I’d much rather have a pistol over an AR-15.

toejangle said...

Yeah he was using an AR-15 --- If you are stupid enough to go up against an AR with a pistol you are gonna die----you might as well commit suicide..The deputies called for back-up which was the right thing to do. The AR makes it more of a swat team issue..

Anonymous said...

11:26, where did you see this? It contradicts all of the news reports. Sure seems odd that so many deputies stood down. The Sheriff's Department knew about this guy for months and had dozens of encounters with him. The FBI knew from several sources that he had stated that he was going to shoot up the school. Sure seems odd.

Anonymous said...

Then he should upgrade his weapon. He was there to protect. That was his only purpose, and he failed miserably.

Kingfish said...

Cop is probably carrying a Glock 19 or something similar plus magazines. Mag probably holds at least 15.

They were within a building. It's not like the cop will be shooting from a quarter mile away with a pistol.

Oh, and he is wearing a bulletproof vest.

Anonymous said...

Correct. Cruz did not use an AR-15. It was a Smith & Wesson.

Anonymous said...

If the Deputy was proficient with his pistol, then the killer would have been no match. No matter what weapon he had.

Anonymous said...

Since we now know the Sheriff is a democratic party supporter AND we know his department blatantly failed to act during the shooting AND his department was MORE THAN AWARE of this disturbed young man's mental state including the fact that he was on the brink of destruction... WHO was in the dark net chat rooms with Cruz in the days leading up to the shooting? WHAT was said to him to push him over the edge? WHO owns those IP addresses? I'm afraid some of the answers will be gut-wrenching.

Anonymous said...

A review of what has "leaked out" is in order:

1. Over 39 calls to local law enforcement, child welfare, school officials, etc, etc. (lawsuits to follow)
2. FBI notified by Gulfport, MS man in Sept 2017.
3. FBI notified again by "close associate" of killer that he was extremely dangerous and a school shooter in the making - Jan 2018
4. FBI notified again in Feb 2018 (unconfirmed)
5. 4 deputies took cover. Kids are being killed and the deputies are hiding. They all wear bullet proof vests, and most carry shotguns, and even M4 in their squad cars. Was it lack of training? Or lack of guts?
6. Obviously no leadership in the Broward County Sheriffs department.

And more government is the answer?

When the next nut drives over the kids with a car or uses an improvised bomb, watch the left wing nuts...they will immediately call for more gun control.

The media glamorizes these shootings and creates copycats, the left promotes a culture of violence, immorality, and anything goes, and we wonder why our society is in free fall.

And the 2nd Amendment has nothing to do with personal protection or hunting...it is purely to keep the tyrants at bay.

Anonymous said...

Alex Jones checking in at 2:33.

Anonymous said...

Following Columbine, academia, policy makers, EMS, Fire Service and law enforcement collaborated on updated tactics, techniques and procedures to deal with active shooters. Whether BCSO trained on ALERRT, FASTER, ALICE, LASER or some hybrid/custom protocol, the expectation of first responding officers is no longer to set a perimeter and wait for SWAT - it is to form a contact team, make entry, move toward the sounds of violence, search for the threat and neutralize it. If these folks were trained in any of the above protocols and it is in their agency's SOP, they should be made to explain why they failed to act - four people makes a fine contact team (with response times in rural Mississippi, we'd be lucky to have two), and I've read several reports of single officers making entry and being very effective.

That being said, an SRO's kit probably does not include the gear appropriate to mount a meaningful counter-assault to a threat actor with a long gun. My guess is that the school wanted an officer with a soft presence to create the illusion of security (which is exactly what they got in this case). So how do you explain the actions of the other three responding deputies? To me it sounds like the deputies considered their own risk before those they are sworn to protect, which is cowardly to say the least.

Also, there is no such thing as a bullet proof vest - there are varying levels of protection, and I would imagine the duty assignment at that school did not call for ceramic or steel armor, he was probably wearing a Level IIIA vest which would not be effective against the 5.56/.223 round - regardless, this is no excuse not to act.

Many people will say that this particular shooter was "crazy" - I beg to differ; a quick analysis reveals a pretty calculating individual - if you notice what he was wearing (a JROTC shirt), his intent was to lessen responding officers' suspicion of him, and he evacuated with students from a non-adjacent area who didn't necessarily know he was the shooter - how would a responding deputy/officer know he was expelled and was the threat actor?

I've been military/LE for over 26 years and I've seen amazing advances in how we handle these threats, but procedures only work if you follow/execute them - from threat assessment to direct action. There were several opportunities to prevent this atrocity - this individual was a known quantity and was identified as a viable threat, the fact that people with the duty to act (at all levels) failed to do so just amplifies the tragedy.

Kingfish said...

What does the Sheriff being a Democrat have to do with it? You really think democrats want to see dead kids? I don't mean the Democrat hacks who exploit every crisis on TV, I mean the ones you know who serv on city councils, school boards, and county boards, not to mention serving as police Chiefs. Yeesh.

Luckyliberal said...

Id you read the local coverage, you can piece more of the story together...the deputy was 54 years old, with 33 years service, had been stationed at the school since 2009. His base salary was $80,000 a year, in 2016 he made $101,000 with OT. He retired the following day and is drawing 75% od his base or $60,000 a year + benefits. He had 2 disciplinary actions in recent years which the circumstances are not disclosed, but the union saved his job, yet he was not a member of or paying dues...it appears he was just coasting until something forced him into retirement. In other reports, students said he was hardly ever present

Anonymous said...

One deputy, well trained would have made a significant difference. I cannot armchair quarterback this scenario. All I’m thinking about is what are the families of the deceased are thinking now and what are the parents of the survivors saying about the situation going forward? This is a large issue that needs to be addressed. The gun didn’t kill by itself. There was clearly signs something was going to happen. There are still many unanswered questions and no telling how many more issues about that day will surface. These are not adults killing children. These are children doing this.

Anonymous said...

The deputy did not know if there were multiple hostages, explosives, multiple shooters, or any other details of the scene inside. If law enforcement training schools are teaching students to rush inside a building without knowing ANY of the facts we will have situations where even more lives will be endangered in the future. The proper procedure was to wait for backup which is what he did.

Anonymous said...

This was not a hostage situation. There was an active shooter. Waiting only leads to more casualties.

StarRider said...

The most current thought now on responding to a spree shooter is to go to the gunfire as quickly as possible, it has been shown that's often the best way to stop the shooting. The shooter will have to reload periodically, which is a window during which he is extremely vulnerable. Not sure what training protocol this department has, he may have been trained to wait outside and maintain a perimeter. Body armor of the level worn by most police departments are not effective against most 5.56 ammo, especially the FMJ type most often bought in bulk. Armor that will stop carbine ammo is more expensive, heavier, and more bulky than most common Level IIA, which will stop virtually all handgun ammo. The shooter carried a S&W M&P Sport, according to what I was told.

Anonymous said...

Duty bound, blah, blah. There isn't any specific duty to respond. Warren vs District of Columbia; DeShaney vs Winnebago County; Castle Rock vs. Gonzalez, cops or government workers aren't required to enforce anything. And they know it too.

Barry Kripke said...

8:42 PM Your saying if my house catches on fire the Fire Department has no duty to respond?

Anonymous said...

I told them at the beginning of this conversation 8:42

Anonymous said...

And at 2:59 we have Hillary Clinton, ole gurl is just so happy that all of this chaos is giving everyone something to talk about and make those mean ole gun loving conservatives have to go on the defensive!

Anonymous said...

Enforce hell! Stop innocent people from being killed be damn civil case rulings.

Anonymous said...

Complete garbage. You don't know the difference between duty, duty to rescue, duty to render aid, LEO status, on or off duty, much less all the case law and AGOs on this. Yes. a FL LEO, on duty, ESPECIALLY as assigned as the SRO at the very school where he has long worked, has a legal obligation to act. Furthermore, reports indicate he had specific knowledge of the perp's prior threats, and failed to perform his duty then. His obligations to the community (a vast difference than "to an individual in your cites) in a mass shooting spree to defend the minors at his employer's business place are beyond question. And that is another important phrase. Good grief.

StarRider said...

They have no duty to respond in the sense that you cannot sue them or their agency for the non-response, but you can damn sure fire them for individual actions. Between the FBI inaction and the sheriff's dept. incompetence on multiple warnings about this guy this was a very preventable shooting. Quite a few people should be looking for jobs here in the next few days.

Anonymous said...

When are we going to stop this White on White Crime people?

Anonymous said...

The incremental disclosure on this horrible incident has been over the top. Had the initial reports been, deputies on scene did not engage, sicko even called police to report himself, methinks the media spin would have gone another direction. The VA Tech guy used a handgun and had a higher body count, many of his magazines were not fully loaded, had 10 rounds not 15.

Anonymous said...

@Barry Kripke: Are you saying they do? Sue them next time they don't respond and see what judgment you end up with.

@10:10: More blah blah PBA (punctuated by acronyms) and IPs (important phrases). You can hand it to them on paper, harangue them with it in a certification seminar, post it on the wall, or LIOTPAN (leave it on their pillow at night). But a black letter law you-have-to-go-in? Where is it?

Anonymous said...

no government employee, county, state or federal will be fired or even disciplined over this entire tragedy . just like the 9-11 terrorist attacks where no one was so much a demoted. moral of story...... dont ever depend on a government worker to solve any problem.

Anonymous said...

@11:26

I'm not sure if you are clueless and don't understand that an M&P 15 is just an AR-15 with a modified gas system or if you do understand but it's important to you to split such fine hairs. Either way, you and all the "It wasn't an AR-15" people are wasting a lot of time. For the purposes of this discussion, I don't care if it was an M&P-15, an AR-15, an AR-10, a .223, or a 5.56.

Bottom line is that this guy was shooting a high capacity magazine fed rifle and someone with a pistol stood outside rather than charging in to try to challenge him. Whether you think that's right or wrong, I don't see the M&P vs. AR distinction really being material.

Anonymous said...

10:46 is correct

Anonymous said...

For the purposes of this discussion ...

Are you and editor or moderator here at JJ? Get over yourself.

Anonymous said...

"AR-10" is .308

Anonymous said...

Well, sure looks like 10:46 is not entirely correct.

Anonymous said...

@12:45 is correct in that an AR-10 IS a .308 caliber variant of an AR-15.

@12:56 since I still don't care, I guess I'm back to being entirely correct

StarRider said...

The M&P is a direct impingement AR, it doesn't have a "modified gas system".

Anonymous said...

In some persons lives there comes a situation that is unique and can lead to huge effects on others. As individuals a person must choose to react or be passive. The decision has to be near immediate. The military recognizes this and awards the highest honor (the medal of honor) to those who selflessly make a decision to aide those within their sphere of influence. But they also award lesser degrees of heroism (silver star, bronze star, etc...). There are even civilian awards for non-military persons. When the time comes, you either throw yourself into breech, do what you can and leave final judgement to god... or you become passive a fail to act. It's why we honor the true "heroes". This man, for whatever reason (and the reasons can be argued forever without a final consensus), failed this test of heroism. Rightly or wrongly, he will forever be labeled a coward.

Messick said...

https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2018/02/28/obama_administration_school_discipline_policy_and_the_parkland_shooting.html

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