Averyell Kessler came on the show to discuss the $5 ticket surcharges at Thalia Mara recently imposed by the city council. The Northside Sun reported on the surcharge last week. The story is reprinted below with permission of the Northside Sun. I found the video of the city council vote and am uploading it right now. A survey of ticket surcharges at venues across the country is posted below as well. Mrs. Kessler obtained the survey from her booking company. The video of the city council dicussion is also posted below.
Radio show:
Northside Sun story:
THE JACKSON CITY Council’s quick decision to add a $5 surcharge to tickets sold at Thalia Mara Hall continues to receive backlash from members of the city’s artistic and entertainment communities. The council, in November, voted to add a $5 hall restoration fee to each ticket sold for performances at the hall. The fee was urged by Mayor Chokwe Lumumba to bring in the needed revenue to restore the aging facility on Pascagoula Street. Its passage, though, was criticized by the city’s arts groups, who said the increase could turn away patrons and prevent certain shows from coming to the city.
Turns out, the critics of the surcharge were right.
Arden Barnett, owner of Ardenland, a local concert promoter, has already lost two shows as a result of the fee.
“Bands and management see a $5 fee and, in this market, they balk at it,” he said. “It (the surcharge) is way more than the market can support.”
Barnett and others, including Kessler Productions Marketing and Publicity Director Averyell Kessler and Drake Elder, box office manager for Ticketmaster and the Mississippi Coliseum, agree that the surcharge will continue to turn performers away.
Kessler sent a letter to Ward Seven Councilwoman Margaret Barrett-Simon regarding the charge.
“It (the fee) would have a very harmful effect,” she said.
Barrett-Simon and Ward One Councilman Quentin Whitwell were the lone council members who voted against the surcharge, which was presented to the board as an emergency item. “This (turing concerts away) was exactly the reason I voted against it,” Barrett-Simon said. “Not enough analysis went into it and we need to look into what other alternatives there are.” The city wants the surcharge to pay for its share of $5 million in improvements to the hall.
MAYOR CHOKWE Lumumba explained the reasoning behind the surcharge at the November 19 meeting.
“Essentially what we’re doing are renovations at Thalia Mara Hall. Estimations are around $5 million. We have a million dollars from the state Legislature, which has been approved. We are anticipating (raising) $1.5 million in private contributions, from Friends of Thalia Mara Hall, and we need $2.5 million to do the rest of the work. With the $5 surcharge, we will have the money,” he said.
“This will not hurt us, it will actually help us,” he said.
Michael Raff, director of Human and Cultural Services for the city, said the funds generated from the surcharge will be used to pay for a $2.5 million lease-purchase agreement for new lighting, air conditioning systems and fire safety equipment to be installed in the hall.
He and Lumumba said the item needed to be approved in November so work on the project could get under way in January and be completed in time for the USA International Ballet Competition, which will run from June 14 to 29 at Thalia Mara.
The international event draws performers from across the globe to participate in an Olympic-style event. The competition is held in Jackson every four years.
“No one likes the rate increase,” Raff told the council. “For 45 years we’ve enjoyed Thalia Mara Hall, but the grand old lady is not going to live any longer unless we take drastic renovation efforts. “We feel this (surcharge) is absolutely necessary to save the hall.”
The measure was approved with a 4-2 vote. It was passed with no analysis from the council, despite requests from Barrett-Simon to have the item placed in a committee for further review. Several questions remained unanswered, such as how the surcharge would be implemented and collected and whether or not the city’s struggling arts groups would be exempt. Additionally, questions were raised by Whitwell as to whether or not the surcharge would be added to free events, like church services and graduations held at the auditorium.
Raff and Lumumba said the item could be amended by the council after it was passed, if a need arose.
Barrett-Simon said she will bring the issue up for discussion again, but doesn’t believe the votes are there to have the fee repealed. Those voting in favor of the measure were Councilmen Mel Priester, De’Keither Stamps and Tony Yarber, and Council President Charles Tillman. Ward Three Councilwoman LaRita Cooper-Stokes was absent from the meeting.
KESSLER SAID THE fee is one of the highest in the nation. She provided a spreadsheet to the Sun, which showed ticket surcharges at comparable theaters throughout the nation. The highest fee listed is in Detroit, Mich., which is $4.50. The Orpheum, Golden Gate Theatre and the Curran Theatre in San Francisco each include a $4 surchage per ticket, according to information provided by Kessler.
“Because the fee is high, we will have difficulty booking Broadway tours (at) the hall,” she wrote in her letter. “National producers of touring acts look closely at local expenses.”
She told the Sun that those expenses include the local costs for advertising, stage hands, box office staff and security, as well as the overal rental fee for the hall itself.
“So far, none of the Broadway production companies we work with will approve a $5 fee.”
Kessler Productions brings in about five Broadway plays each season. The group doesn’t often have sell-out crowds, but does bring in enough revenue to cover the company’s expenses. With the fee, Kessler is not sure if the shows will continue to be profitable.
“Tickets have to be at a price to make them inviting for people to attend,” she said, adding that one couple who has attended performances for years will not be able to attend if the $5 fee stays in place.
“They’re on a fixed income. They’re retired teachers who buy the cheapest tickets,” she said. “I don’t want to lose them.”
Elder said promoters will likely be scared away, because it means they’ll have to adjust ticket prices to compensate for the fee.
“That’s an extra $5 they could have charged on a ticket that will now go to the building,” he said. “Lower ticket prices affect the profitablity of a show.”
At $5 a ticket, a sellout at the 2,400-seat hall would generate $12,000, funds that would otherwise go to the promoter or not be charged at all, he said.
“It increases the break even (margin) for the show. There’s always a balancing act. (Tickets) could be higher, but how many patrons would I lose at that higher ticket price,” he said.
Elder said the surcharge likely wouldn’t have an impact on larger shows, but would likely impact what he calls “marginal shows.”
Those shows, he said, usually involve up-and-coming acts that have lesser name recognition or groups that have not performed in the Jackson market before and are unsure how ticket sales would go.
“A ticket surcharge could determine whether or not they’ll do a show,” he said.
Thursday, January 23, 2014
Is $5 Thalia Mara surcharge too high?
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47 comments:
Agree with your caller. Lumumba's penchant for new taxes is off the charts.
Tired of hearing her whining. Has one couple that she says can't come any more because the tickets will be $5 more. If they could afford the old price, bet the $5 won't stop them now.
TMH is 40 years old - and needs massive renovations. There is plenty of general use public revenue dollars going into the renovation (including $1 million of state dollars) and private donations as well. Nothing wrong in my eyes with a "use tax" - let those that use it pay for it.
Granted, it appears to be a partial "racial vote" of our fine city council in passing the use tax. But hey - while their reasons might be wrong, the result is ok. If the $5 'use tax' is going to reduce ticket sales, maybe the promoter might have to eat part of it - thus hitting their pocketbook.
Love the Kessler programs - and those done by Arden Barnett. But TM must be renovated for anybody to go there. What would you rather have - make all taxpayers pay for all the improvements?
Follow the money. Entertainment surcharges at Mara, the coliseum, various museums and galleries will be channelled to Farish where it will be shoveled into the usual crematory and blown to the winds.
In D.C. they call it 'leveling the playing field' and 'redistribution'.
8:49
What about high school graduations at TMH? You prepared to charge the families of JPS $5 a head to go see their babies graduate? They are "using" the venue aren't they?
Shut it down and turn it into a Jim Crow library.
@9:26 If it cuts down on the ass-clowns acting like they won the lottery when "dey's baby's name done been called", then yes... yes I am.
What's wrong with my post (culled) suggesting the money will go straight to Farish?
" If they could afford the old price, bet the $5 won't stop them now."
Apperently you're clueless about Kessler's usual program. $5 per ticket (X two since they're a couple) times eight shows per year in a subscription = $80 additional per year for a couple described as "on a fixed income".
" let those that use it pay for it." To a degree, that's fine. The unintended result is that in a free market some people will stop using it. Then the $5 fee will not get collected, but also the promoters will stop bringing in shows if they can't meet the guarantee an act requires. Then we will lose the last cultural attraction we have in the capital city, and will have no big-name entertainers just as we have no professional sports teams. This will hasten the capital city's descent into just being a crime-ridden wide spot in the road between New Orleans and Memphis.
That IS what you want, isn't it?
< If the $5 'use tax' is going to reduce ticket sales, maybe the promoter might have to eat part of it - thus hitting their pocketbook.
How about showing some leadership and stepping away from some of your income?
IDIOT
Plenty of free and low-cost concerts at MC, Millsaps, Belhaven, JSU, and Tougaloo. MC did Les Miz last fall...we have five colleges for cultural events--go to those if an additional $5 will break the bank
as an added bonus, I present to you the new coliseum, domed stadium, and whatever else that will need the same upkeep fee 40 yrs later...
All the more reason to build a comparable facility east of the Pearl River or north of County Line Road.
Seriously, though, the Grand Panther of Kushville and his lackeys on the city council believe a $5 facility fee will deliver the $2.5 million that is required from the city? Based on the numbers in the article, a sellout event would generate $12k, so they'll only need 209 sellouts (208 1/3) to raise the money. Has Thalia Mara Hall had 209 sellouts in its history? If they average 2,400 ticket sales per month, it will take over 17 years to make $2.5 million, and they'll have to do that despite promoters losing shows over the fee. Only in Kushville would it make sense to have a facility fee higher than Detroit and San Francisco....
On second thought, maybe Ridgeland or Madison should build a theater/concert hall.
OK, you dislike the fee. Can one person at least reply with exactly how they feel TMH repairs should be paid for? Or should it just be allowed to crumble, so everyone can complain about that?
On a side note, I can't stand governments that build things but never create an annuity fund to pay for upkeep. Did they think TMH would never need a new roof, new AC, refurbishing the interior, etc?
They should charge extra for running water. It has running water, right?
how about some worthwhile non political management of the theatre….
It's been going downhill for years….how many years were we at the do nothing whims of Harvey?
Did I read earlier that the IBC is exempt from the surcharge? It produces the closest thing to a sellout at Thalia Mara. But the $5 surcharge masks a larger issue...namely that people are increasingly hesitant to venture downtown after dark, especially considering how desolate and dark some of the parking areas are for the nighttime events at Thalia Mara.
2:06 Water fountains rans great during Nutcracker last month.
Terlets flushed right good too.
Happy?
The problem has been the large chunk of seats they can't sell in advance because water pours down on them if it rains on performance nights. I seem to recall several roofing companies got contracts while Frank and Harv were in charge to repair the roof, taking months each time, and it still leaks.
Seems to me the more reasonable thing to do would be to set the fee as a % (a reasonable %) of the ticket price.
2:59 is so full of....
MSO concerts are not hurting for customers. The multiple Nutcrackers were all a success.
No one is hesitating to go downtown.
So Jackson has had 40 years of various mayoral administrations since TMH was built, and only Chokwe has had the balls to address the problems and suggest solutions. That's called leadership, people. Something Jackson and Mississippi could use more of.
What's really stupid is operating a concession stand at this place but not allowing customers to enter the venue with something they bought at the concession stand.
Guess you missed the fact there is no full scale opera production this year.
No one is hesitating to go downtown.
Only in your twilight zone.
1) High school graduations (of JPS) is a part of a city function. I wouldn't care if they got a pass on the surcharge. Or, they could move it to other venue - maybe the school auditorium like mine was done a few decades ago.
2)If the poor 'fixed income couple' can afford to go to 8 shows a year, which is more than I can afford even on my very 'flexible' income, then again I would say the additional $80 isn't going to make the difference. Eight shows at average ticket price of $25 ($50 for a couple) is $400. Maybe they would have to give up going to one of the 8 shows in order for the city to renovate the facility.
And, what about the other 1000 or so attendees - are they all on fixed income and can't afford the extra $5? Or should we not do anything because of this one 'poor' couple?
3) The other side of the number of people that won't attend because of the additional $5 is the number of new people who will go because they won't be subjected to being given a seat where the seat spring is popping through the seat into their butt. Or the additional people that might attend because of having other decent amenities rather than the decadent situation that exists now.
4) How much does Kessler and others pay for use of the facility? Maybe that should be increased rather than the surcharge on tickets. Oh, same result, just in a different manner. Kessler doesn't want to use TMH because of the increased fee - let them rent somewhere else and see what that costs.
5)Last cultural attraction? Get serious. Many other venues and events in metro area. I, frankly, like some of the ones that use TM, but I'm not buying it being the "last" cultural venue. If you want to discuss, at least do it intelligently.
6) The Northside article wherein they 'calculate' the revenue from the surcharge and the total cost to the city does not include all money the city is putting into this project. So thanks for playing 11:21, but take your balls and go home.
7) Thanks for the IDIOT comment. But in my business when my costs go up I either raise my prices or reduce my profits. If they feel that their prices can't be raised, then they will have to either reduce their profits or change their business model. What they are wanting, though, is some more 'corporate welfare' by having us poor citizens to pay the cost for them to have a decent facility. Don't charge the users. Don't raise my taxes. Don't have such a crappy facility. But of all things, don't make me or my customers pay for it!!
9) Nobody has answered the opening comment or the one by 12:55 asking how you think the required renovations be paid. Maybe use the legislative solution of past administrations - just bond it. But then, who pays the bond costs? Maybe we should look for the state - except this is a Jackson facility and those folks in Tupelo probably ain't very happy about the $1million the state is already putting into it.
I've got it - let's ask the tooth fairy for a few million.
The Northside article wherein they 'calculate' the revenue from the surcharge and the total cost to the city does not include all money the city is putting into this project. So thanks for playing 11:21, but take your balls and go home.
And neither do you. Please don't forget your marbles.
KF, if your comment was directed at me, I didn't miss anything. If MSO and BalletMS are not having significant issues with getting people in the seats, then how can you blame MS Opera's problems on some fear of downtown? IBC won't have a problem filling seats either.
Perhaps MS Opera needs an infusion of new management? Some advertising might help also...
Thank you, 6:23, for a reasonable and well thought out response. As you and I have said, still no one has offered any alternative solution for paying for the needed repairs.
If you don't want to pay the surcharge, but you don't offer any alternatives other than "let it crumble," then you have no argument and are demonstrating poor leadership (and terrible debate) skills.
"What's really stupid is operating a concession stand at this place but not allowing customers to enter the venue with something they bought at the concession stand. "
You're supposed to eat your snacks in the lobby. It cuts down on maintenance costs.
"The multiple Nutcrackers were all a success."
Uh, Ballet Mississippi downsized from four public Nutcrackers to two because of poor ticket sales.
"Last cultural attraction? Get serious. Many other venues and events in metro area. I, frankly, like some of the ones that use TM, but I'm not buying it being the "last" cultural venue. If you want to discuss, at least do it intelligently."
Check the "Weekend" section of the papers in New Orleans, Memphis and Jackson; see who's playing where.
If you don't see the difference you are probably beyond educating.
" Kessler doesn't want to use TMH because of the increased fee - let them rent somewhere else and see what that costs."
I've seen that solution elsewhere - it often involved "somewhere else" as in another city where they could make a profit. What do we get then - a dark, empty, leaky theater? Google for photos of the Easttown Theater in Detroit to see how that works out for a town.
How about stopping the show in the middle of the performance and passing the collection plate. That method has built quite a few mega churches in the Metro area. Those that like the TMH improvements can donate more and those that can't afford the $5.00 per ticket tax can donate less.
For the most part, audiences for opera and classical music are graying...part of a nationwide trend. The occasional Fondrenite may venture out, but not enough under 50 patrons are becoming involved for the long term viability of opera and classical music in Jackson, and I say that as a former board member for one of these organizations. Yes, there is the annual concert at the Rez, but it's avoided by classical music purists and - guess what - it's not held in Thalia Mara. There's no reason the needed repairs can't be paid for through private funds. His Royal Kushness should assemble some downtown heavyweights and have them raise the money through individual and corporate donations. Tickets are already approaching the top end of what the market can bear.
6:29--national trends show a hold in the percentage of people who attend symphony or opera. (NEA report. the average ticket price to attend the met opera house in new york is $330 per person--and they have an 81% attendance rate vs the seats in the hall for over 200 performances
plays are down 13% and musicals are down 9%.
the question to ask is: why will audiences in new york pay $330 per person multiple times a year, while jackson audiences don't come out even for $20 tickets!
6:29am, what you suggest (hitting up private donors) is what has already happened. Entergy and other corporate heavyweights in the city have chipped in well over a million dollars but there is still a gap. Amazingly, the city of Jackson, despite all it's bitching about how the state never helps pay for anything downtown, has actually managed to get the state to chip in a million. The City is fronting the money to get a loan to pay for the rest and asking the people who use the facility to pay back this loan through a user fee.
It's free market economics 101 that if the market demand isn't sufficient to support a product at the price it costs for the seller to produce the product then the seller shouldn't offer the product in the first place. The taxpayers are subsidizing the hell out of Kessler and Arden Barnett historically by not charging a rental fee or surcharge sufficient to cover upkeep and maintenance on TMH and presently by having a million in our state money, a million plus in private donations, and the money the city is putting in on this project to get a useable facility. If the Kesslers and Barnetts can't keep up because the market won't support ticket prices sufficient to have shows when faced with a still subsidized TMH then tough titties, that's capitalism. New firms make their riches when the old firms in the market say "conditions have changed and we can't make it work."
But, but, what if Kessler and Arden take their marbles and go home. Yeah, granted, the city can't collect a user fee if there are no shows, but a promoter can't collect tickets if there is not a venue in which to have shows. People rip on Jackson all the time for investing in stupid, needless, shit. Yet here, no one is disputing the urgency of these repairs. They are putting in Fire Sprinklers and ADA compatible seating and a working ac sysytem. You think Arden and Kessler would chip in a penny when the city got sued by the handicapped or someone died in a fire? How much have they donated to Friends of Thalia Mara Hall. You ask that next time she's on.
On a related note, this concern about the poor people who won't be able to afford shows is priceless. Go to kessler's webpage. The median ticket price is $42.50. She has some balcony seats at $20 and some orchestra level seats for $25, but after that tickets are 42 bucks and up. Arden Barnett has had the following shows at TMH: Black Crowes, Yes, Willie Nelson (moved due to Willie's band having a bus accident), Lyle Lovett, and Wilco. For Wilco, all tickets were $42. For the other shows, tickets were sold at $35 to $75 with VIP packages in the $100 to $200 range. If the city really didn't care about the promoters, they could have just increased the rental fee and left the risk of the cost increase strictly on the promoter. By charging a user fee, the promoter is not stuck with the costs if the show doesn't sell well. Plus, if the promoter really thinks that customers will balk at a surcharge, they can split it by charging a lower ticket price.
Judging by the number of expensive eateries and watering holes that are thriving in Jackson and opening left and right, there is demand in the market that can bear these costs. Maybe Kessler should try to book some shows that the people in Jackson who keep Some of these $12 a drink bars full actually want to see. Arden, bless his soul, can find people who still want to see Yes for 35 bucks in the cheap seats and he is saying five dollars more is make or break? Puh-lease.
At the end f the day, People say they believe in Capitalism and the free market until the government stops subsidizing them then it's "wah, wah, what about the poor corn farmer, wah, wah,what about the poor theater goer." Since when did a poor retired school teacher going to Beauty and The Beast become something else I have to pay for with my tax dollars?
well maybe if the COJ had NOT spent and continue to spend the money on the convention "hole" I'm sorry center and had sunk that money into TMH the "grand old lady" would be fine and we wouldnt have all of these comments... just sayin
If Kessler and Arden decide to stage their shows elsewhere, it will be difficult to find replacements. In 2004, I served as promoter and event producer for a national tour. We wanted to play Jackson, but using Thalia Mara was too onerous. The rental fees, the percentage of merchandise sales that went back to the city, the insistence that we use the local chapter of IATSE (the International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees), the bonding and insurance requirements and the staffing and security requirement, coupled with city officials that seemed wholly disinterested in working with us led me to scratch Jackson from the list. We were welcomed in other, larger cities.
Mrs. Kessler told me the rent is $2,500 per night. Half that for non-profits. They also can't go to other venues. There are certain technical requirements a venue has to meet for these shows from acoustics to dressing rooms to the actual strength of the stage.
Did some more digging yesterday. There was an item on the agenda the week before that was classified as an emergency involving Johnson Controls. Thus it did not go through normal procedures or notice requirements.
Then they were faced with this cost from Johnson Controls and came up with the idea of the surcharge.
I go to the shows myself and frankly, the expensive seats usually fill up the least. One show per year is more family oriented, Peter Pan, Shrek, and others. $5 is a bit when you start bringing the whole family. Extra $20 for a family of four. I understand the need, there may indeed be no other options, I am just pointing some things out.
Kessler has a problem getting quality shows people want to see to Jackson because we are a small venue. Period. Most shows want an 8-night minimum run. There are VERY few shows that could fill that requirement. So Jackson is left scrounging for shows that will appear for 1-2 nights.
Attendance? Let me see. I won't count this year because the renovations screwed up the schedule.
Last year. Shrek was full. That was the kid's show. Adams Family? Not even half full. Menopause was 3/4 full. Blue Man Group sold out. Rock and Roll Legends? Half full. Year before? My Fair Lady, Peter Pan, and Beauty and the Beast did very well. Half full for Spamalot, Not even half full for Young Frankensteen. Its hit or miss unfortunately. Unless sold out, the more expensive sections typically sit relatively empty.
I did attend The Elixer of Love by the Mississippi Opera. That was an embarrassment. The auditorium was probably 1/3 full, maybe 1/2 full. The other two full productions did better.
KF, appears that they need to reevaluate their pricing scheme if the 'expensive' seats aren't sold. Maybe they are too expensive for the market.
If I remember, TMH seats slightly over 2000 - including those seats that currently can't be sold due to the seats being broken. So the rental rate is roughly $1.25 per seat? And this for a facility that has the acoustics, dressing rooms, stage strength, etc. that other venues don't? Wonder if AK and AB would rather see an increase in the rental rate - thereby causing them to guarantee the extra cost no matter whether it is full or only half full - as opposed to having the surcharge whereby they don't increase their cost.
All this comparison about 'other cities' - what do they charge for a daily rental?
I'm sure Larooter is on board with 'strength of the stage' requirements. I'd bet Toodlum's ring she's never heard of such.
These goons on council are simply into assessments, period. None of that money will go to TMH in the first place. It will go to Farish, period.
These antiquated and artsy venues in Jacktown are anachronisms of the twelve order. Move all of this entertainment stuff our of downtown where people ARE and FEEL safe.
How many times have I exited TMH in fear, hoping I would not encounter a thug, a cop nowhere in sight, crossing the street in a mad dash in traffic and entering the concrete jungle of a parking garage, hustling swiftly to my vehicle while punching the 'unlock' button. Whew!
If it started getting good concerts regularly I'd gladly she'll out an extra five bucks. I saw a lot of good shows there in the 90s.
"You're supposed to eat your snacks in the lobby."
You find that out after you purchase an iced soft drink and head to the venue. "Oh, you can't take that inside." "Well why do they sell them?" "I'm not sure, you just can't take it in."
I'm familiar with NO other venue which sells refreshments, then prohibits entry with them. And please don't compare this to a wine bar at intermission.
But, this isn't about who has the refreshment-stand contract and why. It's about the council finding just one more way to extract money from people they consider 'outsiders'. It's as close as they've come (so far) to taxing people for coming into Jacktown. Look for more.
This concession discussion is silly.
IF more people could eat and drink without making a mess and could use trash cans, you could bring concessions into the venue.
And, there are those who can't seem to drink without slurping loudly or eat without smacking their lips!
It's the cleaning costs and damage and the annoyance to those trying to enjoy the event!
And, it's hardly a huge inconvenience!
Lots of comments about cost without considering the value.
The opportunity to expose our children, even if not enough are exposed , to the arts isn't a waste of money.
To have a state capitol without an adequately functioning venue for dance companies, a symphony,an opera, plays etc. should be an embarrassment our pride should demand we address!
Give me a state capitol with a lower crime rate first and then worry about the damn theatre.
Just what we want. Trying to enjoy a nice show and someone on my left is chomping and smacking away while on the right someone is slurping away. Then everything winds up on the floor just like in a movie theater.
Nice. Classy. Just shows how many rubes we still have here in this state.
The point, dummy, is not that people might 'chomp' in the theatre. The point is that they sell snacks outside the door and then don't allow them. Try to keep up.
Abolish the damned contracted refreshment venue. Again, where on earth is a similar situation in existence.
It's not church. It's a damned theatre for high-decibel level concerts, a few plays and weightlifting. The ones ones bitching about noisy chomping interrupting their the-a-ture experience are the sames ones wearing bow ties, texting and letting silent farts during applause.
1:33
You'll be in heaven if you just stick to tractor pulls in Canton or monster truck shows at the Coliseum. The symphony or the opera are NOT meant for the likes of you.
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