Jackson Jambalaya

The convention center is drowning in red ink. The downtown strategy is in shambles. Harvey is desperate and frantically looking for cover.

One doesn't NEED a marketing study since existing marketing research makes it clear that for a convention center to be successful convenient and adequate hotel space is key.

The failing is not to have built a hotel at the same time the Center was built. Biloxi made the same mistake.

But, it is a correctable mistake. Biloxi should buy that Quality Inn next door and build something appealing!

To pay for a study to confirm the obvious is a waste of money. One has only to be able to READ.

If Mr.Carter had simply read existing information, he would understand that the event space at the convention center is needed as finding over 5000 sq ft anywhere else with hotel accommodations is nearly impossible. In the entire state, only the casinos have both and many don't like the casino atmosphere...particularly fighting the smoke.

You can either look to the future and decide to invest in making your city an attractive destination or throw in the towel.

Many popular destinations were non- existent or in decay a few decades ago. Highlands wasn't where anyone went. Duck was a general store/gas station in a swamp. Branson,Missouri wasn't in anyone's travel plans. Savannah and Charleston were in trouble.

People said The Research Triangle in NC was a stupid idea and that Raleigh couldn't attract anyone.

There is plenty of existing, easily accessible information on why redevelopment works and why redevelopment fails. But, unfortunately, people whose jobs it is to read either don't or have and those who won't read sabotage those who do.

And, we politicize every damn thing and some things are too important to everyone to be screwed up with political agendas.

Put the much sought-after football stadium on the lands bordering the Town Creek. Flood control or open space would be appropriate as well. The low lying area from the Medgar Evers Post Office south & west could be dug out to form flood basins with the spoil being used for levee construction. The basins could be landscaped to offer a measure of storm-water treatment and be part of downtown flood mitigation.

Mr. Ali has a good idea. The high ground downtown is valuable, but the flood plain has to be recognized for what it is...fit only for titty bars and junk yards. The former is useful for convention areas perhaps but the industrial land must be transformed into something visually thoughtful or the convention marketing would fail.

"The downtown strategy is in shambles." at 7:48. What an idiotic statement. Can you READ?
You and your type WANT it to be in shambles.

Look at the downtown progress over the last 5 years, and compare it to cities across the south. See the new hotel (Westin) and the refurbishing of the Iron Horse Grill just announced.

You = racist pig. Period. You and your negative loser collegues just can't stand it.

As a lifelong Jacksonian, I am proud of the progress that continues to continue in OUR Capital City, in spite of some people's constant negativity regarding all things Jackson

Fuck off.

Someone made a good comment but the last sentence had some fowl language in it so here it is:

"
"The downtown strategy is in shambles." at 7:48. What an idiotic statement. Can you READ?
You and your type WANT it to be in shambles.

Look at the downtown progress over the last 5 years, and compare it to cities across the south. See the new hotel (Westin) and the refurbishing of the Iron Horse Grill just announced.

You = racist pig. Period. You and your negative loser collegues just can't stand it.

As a lifelong Jacksonian, I am proud of the progress that continues to continue in OUR Capital City, in spite of some people's constant negativity regarding all things Jackson"

Remember in 2008 when P Diddy when online griping about McCain's selection of Sarah Palin as a running mate because "there ain't no crackheads in Alaska"? Then remember when he came back and said he was joking and that his real problem was that Palin wasn't "vedded"? (a word he no doubt learned from its overuse on the MSM that week).

I wonder if Harvey is having a P Diddy moment.

9:53 my sentiments exactly. I follow blogs, and one thing is very clear. For whatever reason, some people seem to live for the opportunity to dog our Capital City, no matter what she does.

9:53 AM and 10:11 AM

Instead of shooting the messenger of the facts surrounding this pathetic attempt to bring development to downtown, why not analyze what did go wrong.

The facts as presented paint a horrible picture of mismanagement and, frankly, pure incompetence. The City of Jackson continues to nothing about similar situations that have recently dogged it.

Head on over to the Bugle to cheerlead the incompetence that is spun into progress. The facts speak loudly here, we actually value just the facts and the lively discussion that analyzes the complexities of situations. In most of the Jackson situations, we are left scratching our heads at stupidity and in some instances the illegality of situations that have arisen out of the city you are so fond of. I am assuming you want to continue down the path that will eventually bankrupt and leave the city gutted.

One doesn't NEED a marketing study since existing marketing research makes it clear that for a convention center to be successful convenient and adequate hotel space is key.

The failing is not to have built a hotel at the same time the Center was built.

You must not have lived here during the months and years leading up to the election on whether or not to build the convention center. The argument was exactly the opposite. The promise was that the convention center would operationally break even and do so without a hotel.

No stinkin' study needed to know that you don't possess the facts.

What an idiotic statement. Can you READ? You and your type WANT it to be in shambles.

Show us the tax receipts. You can't. Downtown doesn't generate enough taxes to even cover the debt service let alone the recurring costs for police, fire, city services, etc..

Downtown Jackson is a financial fiasco.

Facts have been presented. You simply don't want to believe them. You assume they are voodoo. No convention center anywhere breaks even on its own, and your shallow claim that a selling point was that "it would operationally break even" is either a purposful lie, blissful ignorance or convenient selective amnesia.

The city and state are much better off because of this convention center, and if you poll downtown property owners, particularly restaurteurs, these facts, (which will never convince you or your ilk) are evident.

Does this really surprise anyone? We're talking about the same public officials that can't even perform the most basic governmental operations without fubaring them (e.g. the City issuing alcohol licenses to convicted felons).

And do you really expect anything substantive from the JRA Board? Stack any Board with God-pimps, divorce lawyers, etc. and nothing worthwhile is going to happen.

http://www.jacksonfreepress.com/index.php/site/comments/group_plans_westin_hotel_downtown_12292011/

Read it and weep.

http://www.clarionledger.com/article/20111230/BIZ/112300324/Iron-Horse-Grill-renovated

Read it and continue to weep.

"your shallow claim that a selling point was that "it would operationally break even" is either a purposful lie, blissful ignorance or convenient selective amnesia."

JCVB - I don't have selective amnesia, and I remember these claims being made at the time EXACTLY as they are presented here. It was SPECIFICALLY promised that the CC would break even and no hotel was needed, although it would be a nice expansion in the future if wanted (i.e., NOT NEEDED).

If the city and state are better off (every time I drive by there is nothing planned or advertised in the CC) then why can't Jackson use the huge revenues that are pouring in to repave a street or two? Hmm?

He's asking for $12.5 million in tax money (bonds) for the hotel and $2.5 million in bonds for the restaurant.

"Simpson is working with Minnesota-based Wischermann Partners on the concept of the hotel. Wischermann operates the Westin Galleria hotel in Edina, Minn., and Simpson said it would operate the proposed Jackson hotel. The architects, construction companies and other members of Capital Hotel Associates are local, Simpson told the JRA board."

These guys from Edina, MN have no idea how different Jackson, MS will be for them. None at all....

1:34 you so show your ignorance. Monies are now appropriated and sitting in a "shelf account" for Pearl, Pascagoula and Mill Streets. They are not being paved now due to the plethora of construction on those same streets, now and in the future. Come to a CMPDD meeting sometime, or visit there, and learn before you shoot your mouth off. Hmmmm.

Also, you are very WRONG regarding claims that the JCC would break even. None anywhere in the country "break even" on their own. (Nor do arenas, libraries, museums, performing arts centers, etc, for that matter.)

You simply do not know what you are talking about, but use "code words" for "Jackson sucks" continually.

I love village idiots.

I have very little knowledge about the depth of this mess; however, JCVB, I DO remember reading in the Ledger that the Convention Center would be a stand-alone, self sustaining and supporting success. I also wonder what the hell good a hotel will be that's unoccupied except for a convention or two a year. Nobody stays in Jackson, thus the multitude of motels in Rankin County and now, Madison County. I'm not downing the city, just stating a fact. I would bet my ass Jackson has almost a thousand empty room-beds for let every night.

No convention center anywhere breaks even on its own, and your shallow claim that a selling point was that "it would operationally break even" is either a purposful lie, blissful ignorance or convenient selective amnesia.

Bullshit. Read the damn CH Johnson study from way back and addendum provided right before the vote. Voters were told the convention center would break even and do so without a hotel. You either weren't there or are outright telling falsehoods or both.

Read it and weep.

Read what? The Bugle writes about any and all pipe dreams that come down the pike.

"I would bet my ass Jackson has almost a thousand empty room-beds for let every night."

Why bet your ass, when these numbers are readily available at the...you guessed it...the JCVB?

HOTELS IN THE BURBS HAVE DONE EXTREMELY WELL due to the JCC. Want to learn more and get the FACTS. Just visit the...you guessed it....the JCVB.

No I will not publish them here. If you care so much, come on down and LEARN. This won't take 15 minutes of your precious time. Less time than it takes you to spew ignorant hate.

3:20 I have the study and will bet you $1000 it does NOT say that. Tell me where to meet, bring your money, and we will peruse together.

You sir, are full of shit.

Right. And every person who walks through the door of the convention center drops $70 some odd "economic impact" dollars in the city per day. Your problem is that the TAX RECEIPTS don't come close to validating that bullshit.

Of course you won't publish anything here. There is no transparency when it comes to the convention center and the JCVB because then the truth would come out for the public see how truly bad it is.

"Of course you won't publish anything here. There is no transparency when it comes to the convention center and the JCVB because then the truth would come out for the public see how truly bad it is."

Again your stupidity (no longer ignorance) shows. There is total transparency regarding anything you would like to know. I will bring anything you wish to our meeting, unless you are too chickenshit to show up. (See 3:27)

All is readily available for any responsible person to see.

You sir, are full of shit.

Here we go again. Out come the downtown pollyannas, apologists and bullshit artists with the quip that 'convention centers don't make money' because they need to draw attention away from a Jackson Convention Center that is bleeding deep red MILLION DOLLAR ink every year. The JCC LOST $1.41 MILLION in 2009 and another $1.2 MILLION in 2010. No telling how bad it got in 2011 but the frantic hysteria to build a hotel based on nearly zero due diligence with, as Kingfish's evidence-based reporting has revealed, an outfit like TCI speaks volumes as to how bad it likely is.

Today the hue and cry is that the JCC is losing business opportunities because national conventions and their planners require convention center attached hotels. But back in 2004 proponents of the JCC argued that it would be successful even without an attached hotel.

They made the we'll-be-fine-without-a-hotel argument because Harvey Johnson's own consultant -- C.H. Johnson Consulting which is one of the consulting firms used recently in the last ditch 'Hail Mary' effort to somehow justify the hotel madness -- advised that a convention center in Jackson would be successful without having
to rely on any regional and national conventions for at least one decade (that is 10 years for the challenged in the JCVB and DJP offices) after the center opened.

"Jackson Convention Center Implementation Plan", Prepared by C.H. Johnson Consulting, Inc, Section 3, Page 16, Category: Implications for Jackson.

"Jackson, as the State capital and largest city in the State, has an opportunity to succcessfully enter the market for state association conventions, local and regional tradeshows, and consumer events. As regional and national conventions and tradeshows continue to increase in number and size, Jackson will enjoy increasing demand from these segments as well. However, over the first ten years of convention center operations Jackson will be primarily dependent upon state and local event demand."

The JCC is an economic and financial failure. Doubling down by committing more Jackson taxpayer backing for an attached hotel would be nothing less than Jackson's own local Solyndra.

Thank you for your next to last paragraph. You have made my point and the point for the need of a hotel, and are too blinded (stupid) to realize it.

Have you been to a JCC board meeting to express your misguided concerns, or just blog anonymously?

Are you going to meet with me or not?

I say no, and you sir, are a chickenshit.

Did that idiot just suggest that hotels in Madison and Pearl are doing well because of the Convention Center? My God, someone ought to be fired if they're on the JCVB payroll.

Hotels in surrounding areas are 'doing well' because anybody wanting to visit this metro area asks relatives or business associates to recommend a lodging establishment and they're told to stay the hell away from Jackson.

Tour busses take patrons of the JCC to surrounding hotels in the metro during conferences. ALL THE TIME.

That is what this idiot is saying.

4:39. And for your information, the Old Capitol Inn has the highest occupancy rate of any hotel in the state, the King and the Marriott are up 30% over 2 years ago, and knocking the top off of their projections.

Facts are stubborn things.

Keep on hating and criticizing. It is good for your soul.

Would you care to join 3:27 and me at our purported meeting?

LMAO. Always love the peeps here who anonymously dog others for being anonymous. Carry on.

How's this. Email me the study and I'll post it here.

Are 4:39 and 3:27 meeting with me or not? I will email you the study Tuesday. In the meantime, I am retiring to watch the MCB.

Good luck with your misguided teeth gnashing.

If you 2 will not meet, you are chickenshit.

After reading this post with JCVB's chest thumping and the post with the latest 2 Gutter video.....

Good thing JCVB comes forward at this time to put the toothpaste back in the tube. Take K.F. up on his offer.

Hey JCVB- If it's all so good for these hotels, and you make it sound like they are minting money, why are you wasting time here? You should be financing and building your own hotel.

How is what you are doing any different than the bozos selling stock picking schemes?
I.e. if it's such a great idea, why are they selling their idea instead of using their idea?

Straight up- have you, this "JCVB" poster, collected any fees or income from the JCC deals or any of the proposed hotel deals? Who is floating your boat? Just the 'public good'?

Email Kingfish the financial statements for the Convention Center from 2005 forward.

Put all the cards on the table.

Convention attendance peaked in the late 90s. Jackson is chasing yet another falling knife.

Convention Center game is an arms race where enough is never enough and John+Jane Q. Public always lose.

The attendee multiplier argument doesn't carry water.

Heywood Sanders predicted all of this.

The study is over 150 pages. Don't hold your breath KF.

If this JCVB doesn't email all this so called proof to K.F. then they are the chickenshit.

Where is the money? Where is the hotel? Who gets paid all the fees for consulting and advising?

Next yer gonna be posting crap like "I think our outlook is bright"

Pull your head outta yer a$$.

U don't have the ballz to follow through and send KF anything. Tuesday?? Snail Mail?

I really can't see the logic of putting a hotel in the same spot as the MS Title Building. It's four blocks from anything and nothing in between. Also I can't see dumping 200+ more hotel rooms in that market in this economy.

Sure the hotels book up at convention time but that is not enough room revenue to make the bank notes. Off time would mean the hotels were fighting it out over the ADRs (average daily rates) and they would be driven down to compete.

The best thing to do with that Title building, in my little opinion, Turn it into lofts. Reskin the outside or at least remove the most dated elements and replace with more timeless materials and turn it residential (with secure garage). You guys need people DT and business to follow. Forty percent to half full hotels are not the ticket, in any market be it Jackson, Baton Rouge, Montgomery....

But as for the "Iron Horse"...yea! and should this Westin deal go through, more power to them as I know that it will get all the support that the market can throw it's way.

The Iron Horse Grill renovation is NOT Ken Crotwell's Iron Horse Grill. He has nothing to do with it and the recipes are his and he still makes Iron Horse Chips, which are sold at several local locations. Look for a lawsuit.

The Wall Street Journal today (12/31/2011 published an article that everyone should read

Have We Got A Convention Center To Sell You!

Here’s a link -- copy and paste.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204720204577126603702369654.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEFTTopOpinion

This is a portion of the article;
For two decades, America's convention center business has been declining, resulting in a nationwide surplus of empty meeting facilities, struggling convention halls and vacant hotel rooms. How have governments responded to this glut? By building more convention centers, of course, financed by debt backed by new taxes and fees on already struggling taxpayers.
Back in 2007, before the recession began, a report from Destination Marketing Association International described America's convention industry as a "buyer's market" suffering excess capacity. It's only gotten worse, attracting just 86 million attendees in 2010, compared to 126 million in 2000. Meanwhile, the amount of convention space angling for business has increased to 70 million square feet, up from 53 million in 2000 and 40 million two decades ago.
That's largely because governments refuse to stop making convention centers bigger and hotels even more dazzling, arguing that whatever business remains will flow to the places with the fanciest amenities. To finance these risky projects—which the private sector won't build by itself—cities float debt backed by new taxes and fees on already struggling taxpayers. As Charles Chieppo, a former board member of Massachusetts Convention Center Authority, lamented last year, "Logic rarely has a place in the convention business."

And it ends with this:

The surest sign that taxpayers should be leery of such public investments is that officials have changed their sales pitch. Convention and meeting centers shouldn't be judged, they now say, by how many hotel rooms, restaurants, and local attractions they help fill. That's "narrow-minded thinking," said James Rooney of the Massachusetts Convention Center Authority this year. Instead, as Boston Mayor Thomas Menino has said, expanding a convention center can "demonstrate to the world that we have unlimited confidence in our city and what it can do, not only as a convention destination but as the center of the most important trends in hospitality, science, health and education."
This new metric—a city's amorphous brand value—is little more than a convenient way to ignore the failure of publicly sponsored facilities to live up to exaggerated projections. But as far as city officials are concerned, that failure is nothing that hundreds of millions more in taxpayer dollars can't fix.

Iron Horse Grill is trademarked in Mississippi, but by a company called "The Iron Horse Building, LLC." SOS lists its manager as Joseph Simpson.

Crotwell's corporation was dissolved in 2001.

I don't have time to dig into too deep, but if an old owner thinks he owns that name and sign then he is probably mistaken. I have no idea about recipes, but a new menu solves that problem. It seems apparent that Crotwell has abandoned his mark.

Full disclaimer, I don't know either of these men. They may be partners, making this post moot.

Damn 5:45 and 5:48. Catch your breath. The sun will come up tomorrow, I promise.

Memphis, Tennessee here. I am in this industry in Memphis and LOVE reading comments from my redneck, expert neighbors. There is a reason you rubes are last in everything. Read above.

Even the hillbillies in Arkansas have figured it out. You down there are laughable.

Rockytop,

Put a cork in it. Memphis died years ago.

Kapt

Marketing like the government bond business has very, very deep roots in America. It may be the same business actually. When the whole financial house of cards comes down what is already constructed will still need slick marketing types to re-package it and sell it. People who bought the tax exempt municipal bonds may be the same folks that are the wheelers and dealers in downtown real estate.

5:55. It is commonly known as "Put a FORK in it." Yeah we are dead as hell. Did you enjoy the Liberty Bowl last night, and a packed Beale Street? How about our CHARTER SCHOOL downtown (that you rubes pass off as "racist"), and over 8,000 downtown residents. Been to the Redbirds Baseball Complex downtown, or the 308 downtown restaurants? Yeah we are dead. You in Mississippi will never be as "dead" as we are, with your provincial attitudes as witnessed here.

Don't forget your $70 million dollar budget deficit. That is great!

Rockytop,

Actually it is put a friggin' cork in your blow hole.

Obviously your great allegiance to Memphis is well proven. What bowl - don't care. You are right about the crowds on Beale, the last time I was on Beale the cracked out hookers were everywhere, right there on Beale. You cannot consider downtown Memphis anything other than Beale street. I especially liked the hookers hanging out by the Hampton Inn when I stayed in Memphis a couple years back.

Not sure what Charter schools have to do with this discussion, but if you knew anything about this blog, you would know there is a very large support for Charter schools by many readers and commenters.

You call the people here racist? Please, I beg of you to head on over to the JFP. I am serious, you will be welcomed with open arms (if you have a Facebook account) for labelling all opinions/comments/thoughts, in some way, racist.

You are very ill-informed and frankly, showing a great deal of ignorance. Have a nice day.

"When you can't argue facts with facts, turn to saying nasty things about the factmaker. If you say them enough they become facts to the willing". Rahm Emanuel

1:52, you can't argue facts to bolster your opinion. You turn to the lowest denominator.

I am not aware of a "JFP", but I DO KNOW that your hick state is and remains hick, because of its hick politicians and predominant 1950's attitudes (see above), save one Haley Barbour.

The world has left you rubes in the dust.

"Rockytop" is too funny .

Anyone in their right mind knows all of the
decent people in Memphis & Shelby County
swarmed across the state line into Southaven,
Mississippi years ago.

The once grand Germantown is now about like south Ridgeland.

Liberty Bowl ??? Is it still in existence ? Who played in the game this season ?

Hell, even Prince Mongo has moved out of Memphis.

Memphis is Jackson on steroids .

Just a big ole town with more thugs .

Well said 3:07PM!

Rockytop, we are quite familiar with folks like you. I am not sure you actually read my post. You sir were attacking the quality of the readership with "lowest common denominator" discussion.

I believe the words you used were "racist" "rubes" "hicks" "redneck".

Please do not come here and insult people with your blistering ignorance. You won't get far I assure you.

"You won't get far I assure you." = Mississippi

Huh? Again with insults. GTFL.

Huh? Again with insults. GTFL.

Moron at 11:01 and 11:01 (again).
By what standards do you consider Mississippi NOT the backwards shithole it is? Read the shit you rubes type all over this blog.

All right, knock off the insults. I've let y'all have some fun, now stop it.

Rockytop said : " I am not aware of a 'JFP' ".

That's funny as hell too !

saaaaaay....just the other day I saw some women strutting their stuff wearing these goofy hats...well, it hit me that those goofy hats these clowns were wearing were shaped JUST LIKE THE OUTLINE of the convention center in downtown Jackson..hmmmm....tell me it ain't so!!!

Let's make it 60. Harvey Johnson sucks.