First there is Cottonmouth:
"In a report issued this afternoon, the PERS Study Commission called for a freeze on cost of living adjustment (“COLA”) payments. This would mean that current retirees would continue to receive 13th checks but without any inflation adjustment. For public employees contemplating retirement, acceptance of the Governor’s Commission recommendation would mean no 13th check for three years after retirement.
After the three year freeze out, the Commission proposes inflation be tied to the Consumer Price Index rather than the current statutory rate. If the legislature were to accept this proposal it would mean a considerably lower payout for retirees than what they’re currently receiving.
There are other recommendations in the report that merit attention like the defined contribution plan study and the addition of more financiers to the PERS Board but we’ll give our public employees a chance to recover from the initial frozen COLA brain freeze before addressing those."
If Cottonmouth is going to down this path, lets start being intellectually honest, something Cottonmouth is loathe to do. The COLA is NOT a cost of living adjustment. If it were, it would be tied directly to the inflation rate as is social security. Now, I tend to favor tying it to the Fed's headline inflation rate number instead of CPI, but the fact remains the COLA is not a true cost of living adjustment. The retirees received it even when there was deflation. Cottonmouth also ignores the compound part but we can discuss that another day. No surprise as he never discusses any actual facts about PERS and avoids all direct questions about PERS. Like Hob Byran, he prefers to engage in political or philosophical arguments about PERS and avoids any discussion of facts.
Then there are the comments at the Clarion-Ledger:
Karr West · Ole Miss
I don't care where the hell they get it from, from the Legislators themselves if need be, but these underpaid state employees faithfully paid into the system their entire careers after being told what to expect when they retired. Mismanagement is not their fault. Something needs dong and now to keep from making it harder on the retirees or those preparing to retire.
Susan Purvis Mitchell · University of Southern Mississippi
The retired people of the state of Miss. deserve this Cola check each year as they were promised when they retired. The legislators of this state have done enough to hurt education programs and retired teachers like myself. Some educators had to work two jobs to support their own families! It's time something else is cut in this state besides education and the PEERS Program! Don't put a three year freeze on Miss. retirees' Cola check! Change policies in Peers' program for future retirees NOT retirees already retired. (Hey dumbass. Why don't you learn to spell? yeah, I shouldn't call you a dumbass but when you are passing yourself off as a teacher you could at least learn to spell PERS correctly.).
Here we go:
Kathryn Ellis Piazza · University of Mississippi
Let's see: the Legislators have an ADDITIONAL plan to: the PERS plan: "The Supplemental Legislative Retirement Plan (SLRP) covers all members of the Mississippi State Legislature and the person serving as the President of the Senate. Mississippi Code Annotated §25-11-305 ", per the PERS website. LET’S DELETE THAT EXPENDITURE, since it’s dishonest that they voted that for themselves only.
As state employees the state CONTRACTED with us, that if we stayed employed, even with low wages, for 25 yrs, or greater, we could retire and earn a percent of our (low) wages based on the number of yrs. of employment . After age 55, our COLA would compound each year. We could opt to save our COLA to be issued to us as a “13th check” or get the COLA in each monthly check.
MANY stayed with the STATE though we did NOT get "cost of living" raise...s during our employment. (The last 5 yrs. in which I was employed at a community college, we had NO raises, and at the end of that time, according to National Labor Bureau statistics, had lost close to 15% buying power.)
Retirees have based their retirement income on the contracted “COLA” to help us take care of ourselves in retirement. WE HAVE NO TIME TO MAKE UP THE PROPOSED LOST INCOME!!!
IF COLA IS FROZEN OR REDUCED: I personally will go to the Capitol and institute my own Occupy MS Statehouse. I will publicly remind the voters of what their legislator has voted for, including RAISES for him/herself.
I will join others in RESEARCHING AND PUBLICIZING the spending on wasteful departments and processes, especially including TRAVEL perks, OVERTIME,
BEEF PLANT (Mr. McCOY, et al)-like, shameful, wasteful expenditures. The STATE contracted with the current retirees: It MUST deliver the terms of the contract.
Are all you retirees ready to march? I pray so.
I do agree with her about SLRP. However, Please keep in mind SLRP only has $13 million or so in assets. Eliminate it tomorrow and it would not affect PERS one bit. I do like the idea of eliminating it tomorrow.
Maurice Cammack · Trinity University
I might be missing something, but where in this "recommendation" does it mention cutting the double rate that the legislature voted itself? If we are expected to do without any cola increase for three years, then the legislators, if they are honorable men and women, will volunteer to abolish the extra retirement they voted themselves a few years ago. Anybody want to take bets on that happening? No argument here.
Dustin Dettor · Division Director at North Mississippi Regional Center
We all see they waited until after elections to do this crap. The typical state employee has a salary that is 10-20% below the naional medium. The pension plan is nice, but not superb. Now it falls below average and last year they changed the cost of insurance, deductible and shrank the providers. How about we start a legal petition to call for a special election for ALL state legislatures. The only state employees that are not effected by this is the legislatures who get benefits from lobby groups and insider information on finances for their personal investments. Its a shames that employees with bachelor degrees only average 27350 & masters degree average 32500. The legislatures who have same education make 2-3 £times that plus per diem, housing allowance, and travel. Then when tney get called for extended session recieve salaries plus 1/3 overtime. As I have said we need a clean out and special electiom
Now to the PERS members and retirees who are wailing so much: How many of you have actually read the actuarial reports? How many of you have looked at PERS finances? I've posted all the reports on this website for you to read. I've attended the meetings of the investment committee and posted the videos for you to watch. Lets say I'm the most biased against PERS person in Mississippi. I've still posted the original source documents and videos so you could make your own judgments about PERS without any input from me. So if you are going to make comments about PERS, try actually reading the most recent actuarial report for starters.
Thursday, December 15, 2011
And the gnashing of teeth over PERS begins
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17 comments:
IF COLA IS FROZEN OR REDUCED: I personally will go to the Capitol and institute my own Occupy MS Statehouse. I will publicly remind the voters of what their legislator has voted for, including RAISES for him/herself.
I will join others in RESEARCHING AND PUBLICIZING the spending on wasteful departments and processes, especially including TRAVEL perks, OVERTIME,
BEEF PLANT (Mr. McCOY, et al)-like, shameful, wasteful expenditures. The STATE contracted with the current retirees: It MUST deliver the terms of the contract.
Are all you retirees ready to march? I pray so.
Just where was this jack wagon protesting when he/she was a part of the bloated government and they were cutting education? Government waste? Why didn't you recommend cutting your job or someone who was not contributing. This is utter bullshit excuse and for that you should lose out to a greater degree than others. My gosh what an incredible entitlement attitude.
It is unbelievable. I personally don't think they cut enough. They need to completely freeze current retirees under the original plan. Allow those with 15+ years enter into a reduced COLA plan, and refund less than 15 years their money and let them manage it on their own. Problem solved.
No kidding 5:31 PM, apparently they didn't get the memo from the President, "Hope and Change." While they get exactly what they asked for with their vote, those involved are unwilling to provide hope for future government employees by accepting change.
I'm all for the Legislature cutting SLRP or at a minimun self-funding.
That will solve roughly 0.1% of the problem ($12MM). I guess something else will have to "Occupy" the other 99.9%.
Oh, I almost forgot, there is the $315MM settlement, which will most likely be half after fees ($157.5MM or 1.3%), so, with that application the solve for is now 98.6%.
1.4% down, 98.6% to go.
I ask PERS folks, how would you solve for a $11.8 Billion shortfall. I mean, we are talking Billions, so we are talking real money.
The attack on SLRP should be steady and consistently driven. Nobody suggests the disolution of SLRP will 'solve the problems of PERS', as Kangaroo reasons. However, there's a thing called principle and it applies here. The legislature has consistently sucked at the fattest teat of the retirement program while perhaps ignoring the need for routine maintenance of the system.
Beginning decades ago when Charlie Capps got his gaggle of cigar chomping comrades a retirement with only four years of service, and continuing up through the double-down retirement and finally followed by the addition of SLRP, the hogs in ties sitting in those plush, gold, faux leather chairs have entitled themselves. Chopping off the head of SLRP is more figurative but, at the same time is meaningful in several ways.
How many of you Friday night money managers realize the legislature finagled their own retirement to be based partly on travel allowance, per diem and special session money to balloon-up their salary calculation?
Any changes at all to current retirees and vested members will not survive legal challenges. The contractual terms cannot be changed without the consent of both parties, and I don't see the vested members and current retirees consenting.
They will have to fix the system with changes to non-vested members and new hires and appropriate the balance until or unless it ever funds itself again.
How about address the solve for instead of offering up hollow threats of lawsuits.
Um, SF, please take the time to review the archives over discussion of SLRP. JJ is the original discussion in the conversation.
Although I agree that government and business ought to be held responsible for the employment contracts they make with their employees, that apparently is not the case.
When my father's company was sold to a large corporation, his pension he had paid into for 40 years disappeared with the sale. Companies in trouble use pension funds and seem to be able to do that without penalty. Pensions are negotiated away not just the company's contribution, but the employees' as well. Social Security, which was flush not just solvent was raided. Promises made to veteran's have, historically, not been kept.
Investment funds in one's 401K are mismanaged and stolen from without consequence.
Banks have made terrible, high risk loand and "forgiven debts" of the rich and powerful without justification and thus put your money at risk.
The lesson is that it's a bad idea to let anyone else make decisions about YOUR money. They will forget and think it's THEIRS!
The problem is we are structure so it's nearly impossible not to be at the mercy of one of the institutions above.
Laws that required accountability have been erased in a demand for " de-regulation" so the baby got thrown out with the bath water to the glee of the special interest lobbyists.
But, special interests make sure we are outraged about the wrong things.
If your 401K is mismanaged, might I encourage you to convert it to an IRA? Then you can do your own homework and take care of yourself instead of relying upon someone else whom you do not trust.
Kangaroo; This is not the first time you've chimed in with the mantra of 'read the archives'. The discussion being had is current. Archives are, by definition, historical. The issues before the legislature are current. The archives, are, by definition historical tablets. The concerns of the public are current, real-time discussions. What could possibly be served in real-time, current discussion and arguments by pouring over archived commentary on SLRP by JJ?
If you are attempting to suggest that I or anyone else thinks they are posting brand new revelations about SLRP, you're wrong. My only attempt is to bring that boondogle and self-serving bullshit piece of legislation into the discussion. It belongs in the discussion. If you object, try to restrain yourself.
If that is your point, stop shooting the messenger. Let us stipulate, $12M SLRP is a joke. It should be gone. Done. It is but a drop in the bucket of 0.1% and your dodge and weave is not working.
Now, how do you solve for $12B? I am really curious. You have yet to propose a solution.
Stay calm cowboy. You can do it.
Why is no one talking about the special retirement for state troopers. They get 32 percent of salary paid for by you and I. They need to be at the same rate as the rest of those in the system.
And don't say they put their lives on the line. So do fireman, Police officers and Sheriff deputies and they are in the regular system like everyone else. Those already in stay in at what they were promised, the new class that is about to graduate and any others tha come should not have a special plan.
Shadowfax: get your lazy a$$ over to the archives and do your own heavy lifting. We have had extensive discussions here about eberything you are currently discussing already. Repeating what other, more thoughtful and eloquent posters have already said is annoying.
We don't need any wheels re-invented here.
re: 10:50PM How about the taxpayers pay for ALL THE GOVERNMENT. Not just a little piece of the pie.
Any ideas on solving the $12,000,000,000 gap?
Public employees enjoy a 'career' of no accountability and raises for staying alive not merit. A nice life of no pressure under a pay for performance system. Welcome to the real world. Stop all COLA or annual increases now, a fixed payment for life just like every private pension plan I had offered under employment. Lock the payments at the 1/1/2011 payout.
All the years of hearing retired teachers boost about how great their pensions are means it was too good to be true.
Echo Chamber....Hello...hello...hell...oo...hel..l..ooo
9:02am why ever would I miss out on my organization's contribution even IF a minimum contribution to the 401K plan wasn't REQUIRED of me?
I don't think you are aware of how the 401K plan requirements vary depending on how a business/professional partnership is structured.
It's always dangerous to form opinions based on PERSONAL experience and interest only.
** YAWN **
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