Jackson Jambalaya

90% of the legislators who are charged with setting the rules and overseeing the plan don't understand basic math. A tiny few tiny fixes today will fix the plan indefinitely. But why suffer a little pain today when there's an election down the road? Just kick the can down the road.

Further prove that those in the legislature aren't leaders at all.

Ask any current state employee and most would say screw the 13th check. They would trade the "chance" of actually getting it in return for a solvent PERs any day. Especially those with less than 15-20 years in. Simple fix, eliminate the 13th check for people with less than 20 years in the system. It would just take some time for the changes to work through the system but with the series of contribution increases, the system would have a surplus within 10 years.

Those in charge of fixing it are the same ones who benefit from it. These legislators must have a lot of faith that the legislators of the future will be as stupid and crooked as they are today. Mighty big gamble.

This isn't the fault of state employees. So keep your hate and jealousy of them to yourself. This is 100% legislature. And yes, they will keep kicking the can down the road. Thankfully the MS lottery is a fat cash cow that will provide endless milk forever. Next will be to get on board with legal taxed cannabis.

All the more reason that current retirees receiving PERs checks should NOT be in the legislature voting on the fix for PERs

Don't hate the state employees at all. Unlike some readers, I don't subscribe to the claim that all state employees are lazy. I see quite a few hard working people who are working for us. It's just like anywhere else. You have the busy worker bees at CFA and the slugs at Burger King.

I take them to task because as reasonable people, you and I should be able to discuss PERS and whether we think there are problems that needs fixing. However, they don't want to have a discussion. They don't want to look at anything. The leadership just says give us our checks and shut the hell up. Barbour had a reasonable proposal to put three NON-voting members on the Board of Trustees who would have finance/investing backgrounds. Billy McCoy and the retirees said that was selling out to Wall Street. But this is Mississippi where expertise is a curse, not a badge of honor.

The State cannot afford to keep escalating employee pay, and that is an un-welcome fact to many. With people living longer and boomers retiring and the birth rate down, retirement becomes impossible without some major adjustments. Alabama built great golf courses. What have we invested in? The stock market is higher than ever. Do we own stocks? Is double dipping ever looked at? Is collecting before 65 the rule rather than the exception?

Looks to this voter like we need to cut out Cost of Living increases until we reach a higher worker contributing point.

The younger generation of government employees need to understand and get loud about this. Don’t dream for the current recipients privileges, unless you want your mandatory contributions to begin a never-ending incline.

It’s obvious the old guard will vote against anything that diminishes their receipts; however the only options are 1. make a MUCH needed change to policy for long-term sustainment, or 2. continue as-is and let the program flop around like a fish out of water until it eventually dies. It’s a no-brainer. Any former employee who banked their future on promises made by anyone in a government position should have known better. Things never survive long term the way the government initially promises. At some point, someone MUST be strong enough to stand up for common sense!

The clowns that enacted the compounding without tying it to any viable anchor should be ashamed. (And, shot!)

There WILL NEVER be any legislative action concerning PERS that would negatively impact current recipients. I don't care if every state agency has to close its doors, PERS checks are going to be mailed.

I write as a public employee who will eventually benefit from PERS (assuming it survives). The 13th check is unsustainable. It’s also unreasonable. It is accurately perceived by the general populace as an overreach. It is high time to reform the 13th check so that it is more reflective of a true cost of living adjustment.

Pensions are obsolete. Phase out PERS for new state employees by requiring all new state employees hired after 7/1/2020 to not contribute to nor receive any benefit from PERS and instead be enrolled in a 401k

The legislature doesn't have the balls to take on big issues. They never have. That's why they are always "letting the people vote" on big things like changing the flag and education funding, along with other things that are controversial.

Recognizing this, the legislature should delegate to the State Treasurer or the tax commission or some other politically-insulated entity the power to rework the COLA and related issues without legislative approval.

Really, the lottery money should have been set aside to insure the solvency of the retirement system. It can still be utilized this way, but the gas tax would have to be passed and the money from that switched out to free up the lottery money.

Lottery for PERS?

But the TEEEEEAAAAAACCCCCHHHHHEEERRRRSSSSS!!!!!

@11:55- If every state agency closes their doors, then the money will certainly run out; hence, no checks will be mailed. It cannot sustain indefinitely. All we are trying to do is intelligently avoid the train wreck.

The 13th check would not be an issue if the State chose to reign in the exorbitant, out of control investment management fees. The fees are freaking ridiculous.

@KF- The teachers won’t be an issue forever. I’d love to see some statistics on the decline of average number of teachers’ years contributed... meaning, many aren’t hanging around for more than a hand-full of years. (And, the ones that do leave, typically pull out any retirement funds available.) The number of “veteran” teachers with more than 10 years experience is declining. Fewer and fewer 20- and 30- something year olds are planning to put in full retirement years in the public classroom. Obviously, it will take decades to weed out the over 40+ crowd. Nonetheless, unless the education system is corrected, teachers won’t truly be a long-term issue.

As a former state employee (three years) I can tell you that roughly 60% of employees are not vital to daily operations. The problem is the older employees are protected and it takes an act of god to fire them or lay them off.

@12:28
The 13th check would not be an issue if the State chose to reign in the exorbitant, out of control investment management fees. The fees are freaking ridiculous.

I've often wondered why Kingfish doesn't investigate this. PERS and the legislature are always his primary target. But never a peep about fatcat Wallstreet firm getting rich on a retirement plan which state employees are forced to contribute.

I'm sure he knows the numbers. What are they being paid in fees? Why hasn't the investment bank been held responsible for poor performance despite the booming stock market? Why isn't their compensation performance based?

I am a retired so I have a vested interest (no pun intended) in this issue. But since I am a retiree, I am old enough to remember when inflation was above 3%. In those days, retirees were begging for a COLA tied to inflation. But the answer was always, "No, the average is 3%."
With all of the money that Stimulus dumped into the economy, I think inflation is inevitable. When that happens, PERS will win and retirees will lose.
The larger problem is that the system was designed to have many more gov't workers who are low paid but never retire. Almost all of those jobs have been privatized at the state and local level and at universities. There are no more janitors or cafeteria workers in gov't, they have all been privatized along with groundskeepers and even building maintenance. This saves lots of money but it costs the retirement system.

@12:59 pm Mississippi is paying 20 times what Alabama is paying and 5 times what Arkansas is paying in yearly fees to the management firm. Who is benefiting from such a sham?

Well thank goodness those fiscally responsible conservatives who are now running Mississippi have the guts and courage to fix this problem once and for all without worrying about political consequences, am I right?

Not going to happen. None of, and I do mean none of, the statewide candidates this year said anything other than that they would preserve the 13th check in its current form.

In fact, several went further and said PERS didn't need any reforming on anything.

I read the opening article, thoroughly and slowly, twice. There is not one word in it that's not a repeat of the previous 16 posts by Jambalaya. Not one word.

JJ's theory is that if he keeps harping on it, the group at TICO's will finally take notice and pay attention to him.

Have you also considered that more people are retired now than before? When you 'starve the beast' those retirement contributions don't go aways... they stop contributing new money and... RETIRE.

Best thing you could do... allow anyone retired to collect 40% of their retirement benefit and still work in state government. At LEAST they're still contributing (along with their employer)... and are that much closer to their 'final' retirement data (no one lives forever).

A lot of folks I know have retired from State Government in the past few years just because of the negative bullshit about state employees and teachers... those teachers are a bunch of lazy SOBs... or all MDOT does is lean on a shovel all day. Well... now they're essentially set in stone as the pension obligation is backed by the full faith and credit of the State... as opposed to still contributing to PERS.

Call it double-dipping if you want, but there's an economic reality that paying someone 40% of their pension and getting contributions is better than paying 100% starting at 20 years in.

So the people sucking money out of the system are getting a 3% raise every year, but the people paying into the system get one raise every seven years, maybe two raises in ten years tops.

And the number of people paying in has shrunken.

Its basic math. Money going in is not growing, money coming out is growing exponentially.

Kingfish is like a political cartoonist who is thrilled over nutty election results and seizes on them because it increases his cartoon popularity. The Fish wishes Head Start teachers would replace all these sorry-ass tenured and dedicated public school teachers so his blog site would rise in popularity due to the resulting controversy. Nothing peaks blog popularity like controversy.

He has two choices after reading this. Kill it with his radar or tell me to fuck-off.

Don't show at my church 3:17

Getting rid of the legislator's separate "SLURP" retirement fund would be a great start.

Actually the official name of this exclusive fund reserved for only State Reps & Senators is named the Supplemental Legislative Retirement Plan (SLRP)

For those unaware of this special "legislative retirement", I direct you to the Mississippi Public Retirement System site:

https://www.pers.ms.gov/Content/Pages/Retirement-Plans.aspx

Next time a State Rep or State Senator candidate knocks on your door during an election year . . . ask em' about SLURP.

I willing to bet their response will be a confused Bugs Bunny / Sgt. Schultz response.

Or I can continue to let you make a fool out of yourself raising hell about the cartel, people from Jackson who shop in Madison County, dog parks, and everyone else's ethnicity.

There is a reason corporations changed from defined benefit to defined contribution plans years ago (puts the exposure and responsibility on the employee). I much prefer it this way as I control what the $ is invested in and it is my responsibility to manage it. It is also my money and not subjected to the whims of my employer. Why not freeze PERS at the level the employee currently has and transition to a defined contribution plan? Between the current forced employee contribution and employer contribution, this probably totals close to 20 or 25% of the employee's compensation. A responsible person would be better off in this scenario than wondering if their PERS will be there. Like so many things, politicians love to control the $ as that allows them to control the voter so no changes will happen. They also protect us from ourselves so they say.

@3:17- ... me thinks KF has called you out! Lol!!

Given that KF has a reputation for breaking stories with all available facts, and NOT running wild with emotional, race-baiting, one-sided opinions, we’ll stick with him!

I applaud Kingfish for posting this. It’s the biggest issue in the biggest financial issue facing the state.

Meanwhile, a conservative think tank tweets today about the fees that are paid to money managers at PERS. Maybe those fees are too high. Maybe they are too low. I don't know - I haven't looked at it closely enough to have an informed opinion. But I'm confident that an arbitrary legislative limitation isn't an answer.

The public would be much better served if a "think tank" like them were focused on a) revamping the board so that it has true experts that would have the ability to assess issues such as fees, and b) big issues like the COLA.

Regardless, good for Kingfish for stimulating discussion on this topic. I bet that a request will be coming soon, perhaps for the 2021 legislative session for yet another increase in the employer contribution rate for PERS. That means more taxpayer dollars for PERS, more money out of school district budgets that could be going to the classroom, and more money from county owned hospitals that could be going to health care. For example, think about how big the teacher pay raise could be, or what a tax cut could look like, if we got control of PERS?

State employee here - yes, PERS needs major changes. I am all for modifying or reducing the 13th check. I think at a minimum the PERS needs to transition away from a pension plan to a traditional 401K. The unfortunate part is no one currently in office likely has what it takes to make the necessary changes.

Switching to a 401k style "defined contribution" plan makes a lot of sense.....except for one thing. As long as the system is perpetual, the day of reckoning never comes. They just keep increasing contributions or trimming benefits.

But that giant funding shortfall will have to come out of the general fund if we ever cease signing up new employees for PERS. With no new money coming in, the percentage of benefits that are unfunded grows until it hits zero, which is the day there are still retirees who are due benefits, but nobody is left paying into the system. And that's when the state has to cough up. So don't look for any legislature to pass anything like that.

State employee here. I'm all for making adjustments to PERS. There are some some simple things that could be done that could get the ball rolling. Move being able to collect the 13th check from 55 to 65 on a sliding basis. Leave it alone for people a couple of years out and adjust the age for everyone else. Increase employee contributions (yes, I know it stinks when there are no raises and insurance and other things continue to go up but it has to happen) Slowly move the retirement age from thirty years in at any age to thirty years in and 65. Instead of using the four highest years of salary change it to ten or even longer. This wouldn't change the bottom line for most state employees because raises are tiny and scarce. However, it would stop some of the padding that goes on with the higher paying jobs where people are kept in a position so they can get those four high years. Or, the administrator who was a low paid teacher for most of their career and is an administrator for the last five or six years and their retirement is based solely on those years.

@3:16 Yep. And just WHY is more going out than is coming in all of a sudden?

Shad White should do an audit to see exactly WHO retired over the last ten years, and what positions they had prior to their retirement.....he will no doubt find a surprising number of high level "administrators" who made $150-225,000 a year (and that's just community colleges) prior to retiring and many were purposely moved into those spots to "max out" their PERS contributions before knowing they were to retire. The practice is rampant in Mississippi, and supposedly is illegal.

Investment fees are not the problem. Nor SLURP. You could fix both, and it wouldn’t matter much to the solvency of the system. Also, the problem cannot be fixed by simply making different rules for new hires, though it sounds sensible, but has been proven over and over in other states not to work long-term.

The problem is the automatic 3% cost of living. It is unrealistically high. When it was begun, inflation was high, and the 3% was considered to be modest. It should have been tied to actual cost of living.

Retirees have indeed “earned” their retirement. They have not, however, “earned” the automatic 3%. No one is “vested” in the 3%. Unlike the basic PERS benefits (which are vested and earned), the 13th check can (and should) legally be altered. Unfortunately, there is no political will to do so. Everyone in the Legislature (as well as current retirees and many employees) fully understand that the crisis of insolvency, though inevitable, likely won’t occur for many years yet. There is plenty of time to kick the can; people will be out of office and “getting mine” well before insolvency actually hits home.

Sadly, no substantive changes will be made until the system craters. As stated, that will be some years yet, but the downward trajectory is there for all to see. Make no mistake though: unless and until the “13th check” is addressed, all other corrective measures are mere fluff.

Retirees and employees should bear in mind that “imminent insolvency” is a legal and constitutional basis for revamping the entire structure of the system, including reducing the “earned and vested” benefits otherwise guaranteed by “contract” with the state.

As a 30 year veteran of Law Enforcement (RET), and an avid observer of PERS throughout the years let me enlighten you on what I know to be a problem with PERS. First off I rely on the COLA each year it’s how I make up for the fact that I did not make shit for money for 30 years. Second let’s look into who actually gets to use PERS and who get a special dip into PERS. The Mississippi Highway Patrol can retire at 25 years just like any other state employee, BUT they get to retire at 85% instead of 50% like me. They did the same job as me, but get a better retirement UNDER THE SAME SYSTEM (PERS). Here is the kicker once a Trooper retires, they can go to a local Police Department, Sheriff’s Department or any state job for that matter and start another retirement UNDER PERS. Troopers unlike me do not have to go to another academy to gain access to that retirement because they are the big bad MHP. Trust me I have seen the quality of Troopers that come out of that school and I ain’t impressed. What in the actual hell is up with that! They are the very reason that vestment went from 4 years to 8 years. (Kingfish fact check me on this next part but I believe I am close to correct) Then you have the State Legislature who has SLURP which is PERS under a different name. They get to work for 4 years and then get a check for the rest of their life, and my understanding is all of the above listed retirements come out of the same pot. So you get a guy like me that bust his ass for 30+ years who retires then has to get another job while he watches the MHP guys retire after 25 then crank up a new retirement work for 8 or more years drop into retirement again at some point sucking more money out of the system. Meanwhile the State legislature is pulling a minimum term and automatically dropping into retirement once they leave office as well. So if they want to change thing and bring PERS back in the black how about we stop these Troopers from double dipping, and Change the way SLURP is administered and I bet the 13th check would not be an issue.

as another retired state employee, I say AMEN! to @8:43.

Re: "As a former state employee (three years) I can tell you that roughly 60% of employees are not vital to daily operations. The problem is the older employees are protected and it takes an act of god to fire them or lay them off.

January 21, 2020 at 12:45 PM"


So what is it you have against old folks? Why not dump the young ones who are less experienced/competent? And old employees aren't any more "protected" than younger ones who are past their 1-year probationary period. Last hired, first fired...

"Call it double-dipping if you want, but there's an economic reality that paying someone 40% of their pension and getting contributions is better than paying 100% starting at 20 years in.

January 21, 2020 at 3:15 PM"

It's 30 years. It used to be 25. But now only 8 years for folks age 60 or older. And it's not 100%. The percentage depends on the number of years worked - 2% per year up to 25/30 and 2.5% per year thereafter.

Ah yes, our little conspiracy-kook former state employee. He's been doing this for years. Every PERS post made, he just pops up and starts throwing trash. He won't actually refute anything or provide any numbers, nope, he just starts insulting away and gets worse if challenged.

Funny thing is, he loves to accuse me of digging up his IP address to find out who he is. Nope. Never done that, don't know how to do it, and don't know anyone (that I know of) who does. Found out who he was when the late owner of the Rez News blog, the blessed Jim McDowell, told me. His writing is identical on other websites and social media where he comments that it's not hard to figure out who it is.

If you want to really set him off, pay this site a compliment. He can't stand to let them go unchallenged. especially at 3 AM.

Kingfish I agree about the teachers. I have said many times that teaching is the only career that;
You know about what your salary will be before you start the degree,
You know what your student loans will be,
You know that the funding you imagine will never come to fruition but
You move forward, get the degree and complain about a pay raise before you work your first job!
I guess they’re all optimist but I don’t agree.

Kingfish...All that aside, when was the last time you actually detailed a suggestion or recommended a solution for this PERS dilemma we're faced with? It's relatively easy to criticize and point fingers, but along the way, you might want to recommend a serious solution. Enough of the insults.

Half of the comments, over the years, on your PERS threads are inaccurate. Not the fault of the posters, simply inaccurate. Many of us do post to refute those misunderstandings, but rarely get anywhere and have NEVER been met with concurrence or support from you when those corrections are made. Correcting misunderstandings doesn't lead to additional hits and posts.

There's an awful lot that needs attention as relates to the overall multiple systems operating within PERS. And there's an awful lot of misunderstanding and ignorance, much of which is perpetrated and enjoyed by the Blog Admin. So, there ya go. Insult away.

8:43 You sound like you didn't make the cut in the MHP class. Troopers retire after 25 years at 62.5%, not 85%, from MHSPRS and it is an entirely separate trust fund. It is not the same system. They are not sucking PERS money away and they are not getting better benefits of the same system as you. It's completely separate. In fact, their 13th check doesn't compound until they are 60. Yours compounds at 55.

If they want to retire and start a PERS job (which they never have had), stay 8 years to be vested to make 16% of what Podunk PD will pay them and retire, then so be it--it's the same opportunity any other person would have coming in from a different retirement system. The same with you, if you would like to retire and go through the MHP cadet class to start another retirement for yourself, go right ahead. I saw a guy pass it at 55 years old.

@ 12:18 PM I knew the second I said something about this some Red Leg was going come flying out of the corner and flag me with the “why don’t you go to Trooper school”, or my favorite “you couldn’t cut Trooper school” so take that smear crap elsewhere and keep it on topic. Actually, I never tried out for MHP wanted to do more with my career than write tickets and work wrecks. I stand corrected then on the percentage MHP gets at 25 years thank you for catching that. As far as the two retirement programs being separate from each other you are wrong about that they come from the SAME EXACT money pools that I know to be true. Unless something has changed in the past 10 -15 years I have seen the numbers on paper. You can call it what ever fancy name you want to, but it does in fact come from the same place check on it with a non-biased party and you will see I am right. I still don’t believe it is right that you can leave a state retirement and enter another state retirement without completing an academy just like we would have to do for a MHP . As far as trying out for MHP at 50 yoa, that ain’t happening to many tours overseas and to many years in a duty belt have made that to painful, and I would love to see some of those 30 year MHP vet go through MELOTA. The bottom line is most medium to large PDs in the state pay more than the average Trooper makes to start, and most PDs / SOs are hurting for quality LEOs so a quality Trooper would be a shoe in at as you so eloquently called them “Podunk PD”. In the end I would like to say that I have family that are current and former Troopers in fact most of the encouraged me to stay away from MHP due to the politics and lack of career advancement, and opportunity’s.. We all make shit pay for the most part so the way I see it what little 13th check money we get are back pay for pain and suffering.

@12:16- Who died and made you omnipotent?

Why is it KF's job to provide solutions? He is reporting the facts (usually including those uncovered by paid "journalists") for the public to devise thoughts and opinions about issues. He ALLOWS folks to comment on his blog posts. Have you ever read the comments on traditional news' feeds? This place is a refuge for the those of us who think beyond the typical baiting tactics.

To say his commenters don't understand PERS is asinine. Many of us have been employed by the state at some point. If we are so OFF BASE with our thoughts and opinions, why don't you spell out right here what we are wrong about versus accusing KF of snuffing out your logic. Where are YOUR solutions?

Time to run for office?

And after reading through all the litany of responses…

1. Good to know we can address fat cat pols at TICOs.
2. I’ll say it. Fuck off.