Going to live-blog the debate tonight. I don't expect either candidate to crush the other. Get Joe off the stump and into a more controlled setting, he tends to do better. Ryan will know his facts well to take it and give it right back. If Ryan's age is brought up, he should just say his age was fine when Clinton or Obama were elected. When someone is expected to crush the other in a debate, the reverse usually happens. Think Perot-Gore and Kemp-Gore. Just opened the wine. This should be fun. Good luck to both sides. We all want the same thing: Saturday Night Live to get some really good material tonight.
Time to get started.
Biden kicks off. Let the games begin and we who are about to die salute you. DAMN. Starts off with Libya. Biden calls this a tragedy? No, a tragedy is an illness, natural disaster, a wreck, not an act of war. Biden gets off Libya quickly and moves on to other foreign policy attacking Romney. Wonder if Ryan will say "I don't blame him for getting off the subject so quickly". Ryan's turn. Going through the timeline and slamming them on using the Youtube excuse. Wonder if Donna Ladd will say he is lying. Damn. Ryan asks if we should have the Marines in Libya. Joe flashes that goofy grin. Biden keeps smiling. and almost laughing. Not smart. People see Americans dying in Libya and have a bunch of questions after seeing the stories change daily. Last thing they want to see is laughter or grins.
"Bet against America all the time"? First real punch Biden throws. Get ready. It will be like this all night. Biden now blaming the intel community and saying "we weren't told they wanted more security"? Moderator says that's enough, lets move to Iran. One guy is being serious, one guy is laughing on camera. Biden says the sanctions are the most crippling ever. True or a Biden um, "truth"? Biden explaining the nuclear process. Sounds more like an expert now. He should stay like this all night. Both are making good points here. I'm going to call the Iran part a draw. Now Biden is mocking him while Ryan is talking. Not a good idea. Ryan giving him a pass on sanctions. Yes, the sanctions cripple Iran BUT the Republican Guard and the Ayatollahs are just fine just like the elite in North Korea are. Doesn't make that point. Now on to the economy.
How long will it take to get unemployment under six percent? Dumb question. I'm sure there is a timeline for such things. Every stock analyst would love to predict that one. Biden FINALLY brings up the 47%. Now he is defending the common man and showing outrage towards Romney. Um, Grover Norquist? Joe, most Americans won't know who he is. Damn. Biden just attacked him. Clearly rehearsed but made his points. And now undoing it with that stupid mocking grin. Ryan jabs back with current economic facts. OH DAMN. Ryan brought up Romney's giving to Obama's and Biden. Surprised he went there. It just got personal. Oh boy, now we are comparing personal giving and tragedies. Was hoping we wouldn't go here.
Biden getting him good on asking for stimulus money for constituents. Ryan has a problem here and Biden is going to get his money here. Ryan is not answering that directly besides saying "we do it for all constituents". Ryan better get control here or else it gets away from him. Score this one for Biden. Now on to Medicare and health care.
Joe showing off the pearly whites while Ryan talks again. Not smart. Joe going after the $716 billion claim. Everyone at MSNBC finally yelling "ABOUT DAMN TIME!!!" Medicare does NOT go insolvent in 2016. Will Ryan get him there? Where would their money be if in the market? Um Joe, the market came back. Joe keeps cutting him off. Ryan needs to just confront him. He just did. Ryan needs to stand up to Biden more. Biden keeps trying to cut him off and take over the debate. Ryan should just stop him completely and say "Mr. Vice-President, you are better than that and the American people expect better from you." Street fighter in Joe comes out, Ryan comes off a little wonkish.
Time for taxes. Biden makes predictable argument. Millionaires contribute more. Spare the middle class, etc. Ryan makes good point about how money of "the rich" can only pay for so much. Ryan spouting numbers while Biden spouts cliches on taxes. Biden wanting to show off his teeth so bad yup, he did it again. Moderator tells Ryan he refuses to release specifics about tax plan. Ryan being vague here. Ryan could point out he wants to imitate what the Dems and R's did in 1986 with the bi-partisan tax reform act. Biden uses Reagan against Ryan. Nice move. Now uses hedge funds against Ryan. Not bad. Now he brings up capital gains "loophole". Opening their for Ryan but will he use it? Your Iphone was paid for with capital gains tax cuts for example. Now tries to scare people with losing the housing deduction. "Now your'e Jack Kennedy", Ryan, use Reagan's line and say exactly, you left the regular people by going to the left." Biden is going to blow this with his unprofessional behavior. He did a much better job debating Palin. Time for defense and Afghanistan.
Biden finally brings up Osama Bin Laden. Soberly defends policy of withdrawal in 2014. This is Biden at his best. Ryan says they want the "transition" to be successful but says foreign policy is unraveling overseas. Doesn't point out the Afghan soldiers turning on us. However, she brings it up. Biden really missing it here on Iraq, deadline made things worse, the surge cured it. How much longer will we spend on Afghanistan? She has now control of the debate. Gloves are off. He tried to mix it up with Biden but Biden got ahead on that one.
Now on to Syria. Biden starts out strong with his area and gives specific information on Syria itself. Good point: Last thing America needs is a ground war in the Middle East. America is war weary and he knows it and doesn't mind playing to it. I'm calling this one a draw so far. They both got their jabs in. Ryan trying to have serious debate. Biden does at times, but then ruins it with bouts of unpresidential behavior.
Abortion? Red meat for the bases. Ryan says oppose abortion with exceptions for rape and life of mother. Now moves to freedom of religion argument and plays to the Catholic vote. Ironic as both are Catholics. Biden points out he is a Catholic and how it influences his doctrine. Biden says he is pro-life personally but refuses to impose it on others and says politically he is pro-choice. Now take up the "assault on the Catholic Church". Says the Church is not forced to pay for or provide contraception. Opening for Ryan but now attempts to drive wedge between Romney and Ryan. Ryan goes back to Catholic Church. "Why would they keep suing you"? Oops, moderator cuts in, um yeah. Biden now uses Supreme Court appointments here. Interesting. Usually its the Republicans who use Supreme Court appointments as a campaign issue. Now for the close.
Moderator brings up negative tone of campaign and asks if they are embarrassed. You first, Joe. This debate is going like I expected. Close to a draw. Nice close by Ryan. Now comes the fear tactics by Biden. Good time to use it when response time is limited. Ryan finally has enough and jumps in. Moderator stops him, something she didn't do when Biden did it repeatedly.
Closing time. Ryan brings up "honesty". Joe whines about who gets more time. Biden makes closing statements while looking awar from the camera most of the time. He says he is "frustrated" over the 47% comments and now brings in his mom and dad. Ryan states economic numbers and goes to the "things are not working theme." One goes for personal anecdotes, one goes for logic and economics.
Hmmm.... who won this one? Draw. Biden muddied the waters a good bit with his claims and at times very unprofessional behavior. Ryan made good points and got jabs in but didn't have good answers for several points Biden made such as the stimulus grants. Biden had a minute or so more time than Ryan. Yes, the moderator interrupted Ryan more than Biden but Ryan didn't stand up to Ryan as much as he could have either. Sometimes you just have to try and take over, something Biden understood all too well but then ruined it. Ryan came off as a very serious person, not an out of control ideologue as the Democrats would like to paint him to be. I think Biden is going to take a beating tomorrow over Libya comments. Prediction: little effect on the race.
Thursday, October 11, 2012
Live-blogging the debate
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51 comments:
I'm hoping for another MSNBC meltdown...that's where the best SNL material comes from
EXCUSE ME. I WILL TYPE IN CAPS SO YOU GET THE POINT AND REALIZE BECAUSE I AM LOUDER I AM RIGHT.
The VP needs to stop giggling and posturing and start debating maybe.
Biden brings up "budgets" out of Congress as if there has actually been a budget passed.
Biden's non-verbals are a major turn off.
Say. the. words. like. this. and. they. sound. cooler.
Biden is a joke. Looks like a goon everytime he grins. What a poor performance. The man makes me sick to look at him. I'll just have to watch the highlights tomorrow.
I'm reminded of the Cheshire Cat from Alice in Wonderland...
The artifical superior smile and shaking of head just says to me that "my coaches say that this will play to the base and you will not have to get caught up in facts"I thought that we would have a better DEBATE not a posturing which makes the VP look childish.
Couple of things. Obama said Iran was a tiny country. GM did go bankrupt and Biden lost the debate when Ryan caused the audience to laugh at him for being gaffe prone.
If the hardcore Obama supporters believe that Biden is winning over independents they are as deranged as ol' Joe.
Joe keeps harping on the Afghan troops "that we trained!". The main thing I've heard of the Afghan "trained" troops doing lately is shooting our soldiers in the back of the head.
Fairly sure I heard Joe Biden say that Obama wants to raise taxes on only those making $1m or more. That is a big time change in position. Now instead of increasing taxes enough to cover 1/10th of Obama's budget deficits they'll cover a whopping 1/20th or less!
POLITICO: Twitter frowns on Joe Biden's laugh
Afghanistan is a long way from me. Jackson is not very safe after dark. Security starts on my street and the farther away u get the foggier I get on the terms "national security interest".
Asked if they were ashamed of the negative campaigns, both individuals respond with two minutes of partisan carping. This debate will lock the electoral needle in place until the next event.
Stephanie Cutter is a novice! Joe didn't help, Ryan did not hurt. Still think Romney 's race to lose.
CNN Poll Key Takeaways:
By a 50%-41% margin, debate watchers say that Ryan rather than Biden better expressed himself.
Seven in ten [** 70% **] said Biden was seen as spending more time attacking his opponent, and that may be a contributing factor in Ryan's 53%-43% advantage on being more likable. Ryan also had a slight advantage on being more in touch with the problems of average Americans.
Biden grins like a mule eating briars.
Stephanie Cutter is now the poster child for blonde jokes.
I can't take credit for this, not that smart:
Regarding last night’s VP debate, Proverbs 29:9, “If a wise man contendeth with a foolish man, whether he rage or laugh, there is no rest.”
"if a wise man argues with a fool, the fool rages and laughs and there is no peace." -proverbs 29:9
As I watched this debate last night, I was trying to understand why terrorists, American deaths, jobless, and a frightening economy are funny.
I'm not laughing. Doubt others are laughing about this either.
It is amazing what 9 days makes after reading some of these comments...I was taught that NO ONE gets a pass on being disrespectful...but hey that was in my house.
Ryan did OK, missed few opportunities to jab (Budgets mainly); but lost nothing.
Biden looked like the jester in the King Obama's court. To make light of and laugh at the danger that Iran represents in a Post-911 world lost him LOTS of votes.
"But I always say what I mean" - Joe Biden
Let's not forget the moderator - she did a great job cutting off Ryan. She gets to keep her job at Disney (Owner of ABC News).
"But I always say what I mean" - Joe Biden
Hm. October 2012, Joe Biden:
“the middle class that's been buried in the last four years"
I guess nobody reminded him that -last four years- is Barry O.
Memorable moment: Biden's "Oh, now you're Jack Kennedy!" Quayle's embarrassing legacy lives on and on.
Ryan seems to me like a smart and likeable guy. I like him a lot more than his running mate or his party. But, seriously, running for VP on a platform of addressing the deficit by eliminating "loopholes" in the tax code, and then repeatedly, when directly asked, failing to identify ANY of them? That is ridiculous, regardless of what else I may think about Ryan (or Romney).
Joe Biden won last night, if you are a modern day liberal.
Conservatives simply watched, or more than likely, spent time with family on more important issues. Biden carried the water for Liberal Democrats and achieved the goal of presenting their vision, despite their current challenges in Benghazi and past record of questionable accomplishments.
So, Joe won and women lost. Yep, you heard me, women lost.
While I expected nothing less from the Liberal presentation throughout the evening, I was struck most by the final question in the debate – abortion.
Let me make this clear, I do not care to involve abortion as a decision point in my politics. Given today’s emotional battle surrounding it, it has become distracting and frankly a privacy issue in my mind best left to a patient and their doctor. If you want to argue this point with me, don’t, this is not an editorial on the abortion issue.
What I found most profound in the last question in the debate was the insidious effort to marginalize, divide and fear-monger women. If I were a woman, I would be absolutely outraged at the blatant attempts to marginalize my vote on a single issue. I believe my sisters in this world are just as intelligent as I am, probably more so, and the attempt to divide them on a single issue is simply debasing. The media has confirmed this conclusion throughout the news cycle this morning and throughout the day.
The issues in the current election are broad, too broad to try and convince an important sizable segment of the electorate (50%+) to believe the election is over one issue. Women are the ones who bring home the bacon, raise the kids, take the dog for a walk, pay the bills, earn their wage; just like men.
If you ask why would the Liberal media and the Liberal Democrats capitalize on this issue?
Because Liberals are banking on women oversimplifying their vote decision on a single issue - in other words, Liberal Democrats do not believe that women can engage on other issues, they believe women are single issue emotional voters. Bullshit.
So Joe won...and when the woman who is most important to me in my life tells me what I've just said to you, I can tell you, what the Liberal Democrats are doing is wrong.
In my mind, the Conservative position does not pander to divisiveness and treats all supporters as an intelligent electorate concerned with many issues, complex issues and who refuse to be marginalized by a single issue.
When, because there is no “if” here, women wake up to the Liberal Democratic paternalistic approach to women – marginalization on a single issue – the light of day will shine and we will once again be a nation, indivisible and focused on all the issues we face as a great nation.
We will not fear our future based in rhetoric, we will calmly and intelligently solve our problems together.
To address Kaptn (3:58) comment "We will not fear our future based in rhetoric, we will calmly and intelligently solve our problems together." - We have a President that does not honor the Constitution and it's authority and if re-elected will destroy that Constitution. We have a lot to fear.
All this talk about Obama "destroying the country" is hysterical bullshit. You Tea Partiers need to spend less time talking out of your ass about the Constitution and more time actually reading it (and not just "it," but Con Law jurisprudence as well). But you are all too fucking dumb and lazy to do that hard work. If you actually did that hard work, you'd realize how fucking stupid the entire Tea Party movement is.
I'm not fearful, I'm confident that the American people are not sheep.
And I challenge the Constitutional fear - in this case, I will liken it to abortion. Roe v. Wade has stood in the face of States and several Presidencies. Though more defined over time, it has not changed drastically. The ability for a single individual to do that much damage is simply too much fear.
October 12, 2012 4:20 PM
He is doing a good job so far of destroying this country.
Stop being a sheepish oaf and hiding behind anonymous. C'mon - who is the only Con Law reader here? Who?
Obama is wrecking this country in many ways. If you don't see it, you are not paying attention, you are simply swallowing "hope and change."
Nice language BTW. You kiss your mother with that mouth?
OK, here's your first homework assignment: Please cite in detail the various ways that Obama is "wrecking this country," then compare and contrast them with the various ways that Dubya/Cheney were "wrecking the country" when their 2-term limit thankfully ended their debacle. Explain the silence (or non-existence) of the "tea party" movement while Dubya was empire-building in the Middle East on a credit card that has still not been paid off and based on intelligence that was, at very best, completely wrong. Also address the teabaggers' resulting silence when Dubya was forced to implement the unprecedented "bailout" of the "too big to fail" banks. Bonus points for identifying any legitimate Constitutional authority for any of Dubya's idiotic moves outlined above.
Appreciate something you brought to light, Kapt.
And speaking as a woman, please know that the assumption that some have--one issue is the only issue--is 100% wrong. The people who make that assumption have forgotten exactly what you said--we work and pay bills(economy), we have family in the military (Lybia, etc), and this is our country too. We are not stupid and those who think abortion is the highest of priorities and the only issue, with the US being in the state it is in right now--get a clue.
And you have no idea just how pissed we are. We, just like the men, see very clearly what must happen in November. We, men and women, must all unite.
4:20/4:42, clue one--when you resort to screaming and cussing in that fashion, it is a big neon sign flashing---I can't argue with any of the issues but I can spew filth and see if that will make yall shut up. Typical.
Its time to get of Daddy's computer now. Its always good to be reminded of the typical responses from Barry's supporters.
in re:October 12, 2012 4:42 PM
Go start your own blog.
Title it: Your Thoughts
Then realize, I don't give a hoot.
in re: October 12, 2012 4:48 PM
My editorial was meant to highlight the extreme position of Liberal Democrats who do a fine job lathering up the electorate over abortion.
I can only imagine the level of anger women have over the assumption that is generally held. I believe it is incorrect and am proud to love the one I'm with, because she has been running circles around me lately.
If I said something profound and you liked it, thanks. I've been thinking about this all day.
Kudos to you!
Anyone who wants to continually compare Obama to GWBush simply can not be objective nor reasoned with.
It is the old adage, if you can't run on any record, look to the past to blame for your failures.
Dear Kapt, 5:00 and 5:36: Thanks for your responses. It's a lot easier to carry around homemade, misspelled signs or to call someone a "communist" without knowing what that word actually means than it is to do the harder work of reading and understanding.
PS: which one of you 3 is this at 0:35?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2E87gciwebw&feature=youtube_gdata_player
The cut and paste troll queen makes another appearance.
I'm not looking at that until you get some basic skill and learn how to post a "hot link". The instructions are below the comment box.
Who said communist? FOCUS!
Did someone misspell something or is someone so presumptuous to spell for the rat of us. Stop being my dad!
Correction: "rest of us". I can admit my mistakes and am willing to correct them.
Click here to see KaptKangaroo at yesterday's debate
To the resident lib that thinks he has more freedom today than 4 years ago:
Why didObama sign the NDAAopposed by the ACLUand why is he fighting to overturn the courts to allow him to detain Americans without trials?
When you answer this, you will know how he is destroying thecountryabove adding trillions to the debt you and your children will have to repay
Is that the communist moment you were referring to earlier? Please continue with your conversation with yourself.....
We need good entertainment tonight. A balls to the wall Liberal in support of debasing the woman vote is more than welcome to join in....
By the way, the moderator, Raddatz, was at Biden’s official residence on 3/26/12, where Biden was hosting a "Women's History Month Reception." Conveeeeeenient.
If the liberals are good at anything it is incest.
It's great to get the Mississippians' perspective on the progress of the United States of America under Obama, and before him as well.
Being such a leader among her sister states and all, it shows that you guys and gals must be smart as whips, and that your policies must be the winning ones.
;) Flame away!
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