Jackson Jambalaya

Hmmmm...a city with a dwindling tax base...a city that last year refinanced bonds in a manner that made no sense other than to make money for cronies...borrow money to open a business in an industry that has a very high failure rate...sure! The whole thing makes sense.

A parking garage for future development? Isn't that putting the cart before the horse? I'm all for improving downtown but there is no accountability for any of these projects. Farrish street has been going on for what 5-6 years is it even close to being finished? Where does it end.

60-40 it ends badly. Jackson's infatuation with an average Mexican restaurant is funny. Back in the day when Iron Horse was rocking there were hardly any Mexican restaurants in Jackson. Now there are 50.

I've never heard a persuasive argument on how Farish Street is going to work. Where are all the patrons going to come from to support live music 5 nights a week? How many downtown area music-bar ventures fail for every one that makes it? This isn't the French Quarter.

I agree that the Westin will probably do well. But it will be at the expense of the Marriott.

Fix the streets first

Streets are failing. Water system is falling apart. Sewer system is in shambles. Criminal justice system is a joke. Tax base is fleeing. Those issues should be the priorities, not restaurants, bars and hotels!

Rename downtown the Central Welfare & Bailout District.

Another Birmingham in the making!

In my opinion, these bonds would add to an already maxed out credit card. The City of Jackson can't afford to front these private developments. I would prefer to see some sort of future tax relief as an incentive for the developers instead of giving them cash up front for risky projects. All this reminds me of the beef plant.

JATRAN recovers less than 15% of its operational costs in paid fares and in the past week comes the announcement of free bus rides for students transiting to the JSU campus.

“This is a risky business,” he said. “This will keep us from going in the red.”

David Watkins commenting in Northside Sun on his successful shakedown of the Jackson City Council for a massive kick back of sales taxes generated by King Edward/Standard Life complex.

I am just excited about the sweet potato-Jeff Good-vaginafest that is coming up a week after the only thing that really brings the suburbs to the city for a good time.

Jackson is a joke, I never go downtown, plenty to eat and do in Rankin and Madison, and if you don't believe me, drive through the Malco parking lot on the weekend and see how many JSU personalized Hinds county tags you see.

The greater the risk, the higher the return.

While I wish our city elected officials were better educated in finance or at least, could admit their lack of knowledge and hire someone competent to advise them, I'm uncertain of the value of letting our capitol city decay and can see long term benefits to renovation.

Some of you seem to want Jackson to fail to be proven " right". Ever heard the old saw " cutting off your nose to spite your face" ?

Come up with a better plan and start promoting it instead of all this doom and gloom bitching.

Where is the "due-diligence"? All of these projects should be profitable, or not agreed to. The city doesnt care about the hotel project, because it will be subsidized by the city. The developers are over-leveraged. The city is wasting a lot of time and money on projects that have no realistic opportunity of survival.

taxpayer here...I will never use the hotel, garage and probably will not go to the Ironhorse or anything on farish street...

farish will never finish anyway!

The city is broke...no need to add to it...tell Simpson group to use his own money. Who is the Simpson group...what experience do they have in RE development, hotels, and restaurants?

I'm uncertain of the value of letting our capitol city decay and can see long term benefits to renovation.

You must not get out much because decay, advanced decay, is exponentially accelerating everywhere in Jackson. Jackson IS being allowed to decay and the economic destruction is being experienced RIGHT NOW.

What happens to the Iron Horse bond when the restaurant "accidentally" burns down again?

"I strongly suggest you put up signage warning people who might like to enjoy your history to just keep going if they value their lives. This is obviously not a town for tourists, even in cemeteries on Sunday mornings."

Roxanna Groves Davis, 62 years old, of Olympia, WA writing in the Clarion-Ledger (Feb 3, 2012, Pg 8A) after being carjacked and robbed at gunpoint while visiting Eudora Welty's grave in the Greenwood Cemetery on a recent Sunday morning.

Davis added:

"I cannot believe I could be robbed at gunpoint on a Sunday morning just steps from your Capitol. I am lucky to be alive and still trying to understand how this could happen to a 62 year-old female tourist."

Would someone explain how tax credits work? If they are used (whatever that actually means....are they documents? Bearer bonds? Other?) to pay down bond debt...well...that's good huh?

"Oh, Harvey don't forget to check the plans to make sure they include wiring."

Kim Wade earlier today on yet another loan to Watkins, this time to complete Farish.

all these seem like good ideas... after our city starts turning a profit... Saw talks the other week about harvey bringing casinos. this is a glorious idea (seriously) i know "downtown jackson trash" would not approve, BUT sticking a casino on the pearl between gallatin and state makes complete sense. I know the "coasters" and the indians wouldnt approve but hey "THEY DONT LIVE HERE". 1. there is already crime and scum in this area ie. truck stops, sex stores, crack hotels, junk yards. 2. would addd tremendously to our tax base. 2. did i mention the tax base to improve cops salary and improve streets and water systems. SORRY everyone this is our last chance.

... after our city starts turning a profit.

When will that be?

Look at it this way, 1) they are to invested at this ( with both time and money) point not to do something on Farish Street. 2) We all know they are going to borrow, waste/spend alot of money on something, I say it might as well be this since it has really gone past the "stopping" or "dropping" point. I say spend whatever it takes, get the thing over with and going. We have gone past the point of no return, and better to see this project thru, than to dump it and start in on another project! Bc, like I said they are going to spend it somewhere, so do it and do it quickly.

There is about as much chance for a casino in the mud of the Pearl as there is for RINO Ben Allen to get elected Mayor.

BOTH.Ain't.Gonna.Happen

Take the package to a financial institution, and see if they would buy in.

No on the restaurant funding. That is just silly.

I mean, if I want a few million, can I just say I'm gonna open a restaurant? Really.

The logic seems off to me. Economic development would be a great thing for any area, but the city going into debt to pay for someone else to maybe develop something that may/may not work is dumb. There should be some comparison between successful projects (Nissan, Toyota, etc) and what is currently being considered. With successful projects, the developer comes in, does the job, and there is an incentive on the backend of the project to ‘reward’ that developer for using their money/time to develop the space and bring jobs and economic growth. This stuff sounds more like robbing Peter to pay Paul. Its like a large ponzi scheme, robbing one group to get the money to do a tiny portion of work for group two, then robbing group two to do a tiny portion of work for group three, etc. When you get tired of having to do that, you just get the astronomical bonds that give you cash on hand and buys you some time. These bonds are the wrong way to go.

12:12’s comment (Take the package to a financial institution, and see if they would buy in) is spot on.

Kim W comment is funny and a reminder.

Kapt @ 1:00-you might as well because that's apparently what's happening. I can give you roads paved of gold....but I need to borrow your bulldozer, you need to buy the gold for me....

11:19 FTW.

My, my. How soon Jackson forgets. Will there be mandatory drug tests of the restaurant's owners and managers to make sure any "profits" don't go up someone's nose?

The "developers" know exactly what they are doing. The city "counselors" dont have a clue. A business person wouldn't approach a financial institution without a financial statement and business plan to obtain financing on a project. Credit worthiness of the borrower, the project, operating ratios, break-even analysis, market potential, and a host of other variables are involved such as equity, capitalization, etc.

Actual bonds would have to be approved, but this moves the projects forward...

1. KF, you really need posters to pass an IQ/reading comprehension test before being allowed to comment. As the above states, the bonds would have to be approved - meaning the city wouldn't be just handing money out on the street corner. I understand the developers would have to qualify and prove merit.

2. Bonds are not free money. This isn't welfare. These bonds carry associated interest, which will be repaid to the city by each individual development over time. It's called Economic Development. Look into it. Or, you can sit on your gravy-stained sofa and bitch about it. Either way.

will all of this development be inside the "green zone"

The best rule of thumb is that if private enterprise isn't making the effort to develop commercial enterprises, there is probably a good reason.

The city is making an expensive mistake trying to construct hotels and entertainment districts when there is no demonstrated demand for them.

If the Farish Street development was a good idea, it would have happened without government involvement.

David Watkins should pay the DOZENS of suppliers and subcontractors he presently owes, before anybody is foolish enough to loan this ponzi-scheme millionaire another penny!!!

As the above states, the bonds would have to be approved - meaning the city wouldn't be just handing money out on the street corner. I understand the developers would have to qualify and prove merit.

You really are an idiot to think you can come around here and play that bullshit. Bond approval is merely a formality now.

2. Bonds are not free money. This isn't welfare.

Another numbskull statement. Do you think the readers here are only greenhorns giving their labor away to the deranged cheapskate 'mentors' at the JFP?

Watkins and the rest of the raiders of Jackson's treasury are coming to the city to finance these pipe dreams because they don't want to pay the private sector interest rate freight. Watkins and the other taxpayer rapists CAN get private financing but they don't want to pay the interest rate the private sector is demanding to cover the HIGH RISK.

They CAN get financing. They don't want to PAY the risk-weighted interest rates.

Aren't there any reporters in this Jackson mess beyond Kingfish with the ability to ask the hard questions?

Watkins CAN GET FUNDING. He DOESN'T WANT TO PAY FOR IT.

What about taking the debt and funneling to green energy start ups that will hire Jackson's unemployed and invent technology that will make us independent of foreign oil and boost our economy. No wait......Obama already did that with federal money, lost billions, and has nothing to show for it.

The government has no business subsidizing private business and picking winners and losers in effect. You privatize profits and socialize losses in this manner. Central planning is best left to the communists or other on the road to serfdom

Armed robbery at Eudora Welty's grave
.... In "broad day light" ?

I'm not surprised at all .

Still not one peep from any media outlet about the car jacking last Fall at Dulling St. and Old Canton Rd. at 10:20 AM on a Sunday morning.

(Thats ground zero for the hip, funky, progressive, Fondren district) for all of the thousands of new
folks moving into Jackson that might not know
all the streets yet.

NO ! Not one more dime to Jackson, unless the Legislature creates a State Controlled
"District of Andrew" within whats' left of historic Jackson. For the three or four buildings that Sherman didn't burn, bring in Sally Struthers to film
a commercial handing out bowls of rice to the
huddled masses at the Trademark.

my 11:06, 12:12, and 3:03 comments were an indication of the lack of or inappropriate planning/feasibility/full disclosure that may be involved. There are a few misconceptions in the 4:59 above I believe. The higher risk does not guarantee a higher profit, and that varies daily. The developers will probably assign tax credits to investors as an incentive to become involved in the deals.

Jackson has a major problem that will stifle all devolopment CRIME CRIME AND MORE CRIME/ No way I would take my family downtown

March 6, 2012 4:59 PM

I read your statements and first thought, well, I am sitting on a couch.

Then I realized, as others did as well, you are either provoking a response or clueless to the fact you are not going to pull the wool over other's eyes who may not be from "'round heea ra".

EIther way, I agree with the earlier statements:

1. You really are an idiot to think you can come around here and play that bullshit. Bond approval is merely a formality now.
2. Watkins CAN GET FUNDING. He DOESN'T WANT TO PAY FOR IT.
3. The best rule of thumb is that if private enterprise isn't making the effort to develop commercial enterprises, there is probably a good reason.
\

F' the damn roads. Harvey has a tamale throwdown it get ready for.

As long as Harvey is Mayor, spending money for anything in Jackson is suicide.

Shots fired at a JATRAN Bus,

That should bring in "conventions" .

lets compare this development to the harborwalk... why cant the people see the same failure in this downtown redevelopment bullsh*t... i say we bring in the people who tried this in other cities (detroit) and let them give us theit hine sight thoughts? for instance i would like a college aged blonde with big... well you know what i mean but i will be happy with the one i got (wife). i dont have to worry about her (big tiddy blonde) running off with all my money or mismanaging any of my assets

I am dumbfounded.

A city doesn't exist to " run a profit".

You don't go into debt to buy a HOME with the guarantee of a profit. Unless you are in the real estate business, your HOME is primarily a place to LIVE.

That is also true a city is place to live and it's also a place to work and that creates centers of activity.

Not everything is about profit.

Some things are about building for and investing in the future and quality of life.

These type of bonds exist because private financing IS all about direct and immediate profit. A city plan or project is about future prosperity and service to its citizens and that's why we have this alternative means of financing...not just here but in the US. It's worked well for decades.

A city PROSPERS when its CITIZENS can PROFIT and then the city gets money to support services from collecting taxes on the profits .

As citizens we can object and demand accountibility if bonds are being approved without due dilligence, but some of you bloggers really are off the mark conceptually.

Weren't civics courses required ? I'm not expecting readers of Plato, but this is high school level knowledge though those who have common sense should be able to " get it".

And, yes, I get out. I go downtown at NIGHT even. I SEE the Ambassadors. I SEE the police presence. I SEE the residential living that's begun. I ENJOY the Parlor Market and Mayflower and King Edward and events at Thalia Mara and the Museum. I FEEL perfectly safe and there are crowds of ( gasp) white folks downtown at night..some still standing in line at the Mayflower just as in times of old. And some WASP society mavens, even those living in Madison, are having some mighty fancy parties downtown.

Yes, Jackson has some serious problems with infrastructure and the decline of the tax base is a the heart of the problems. Here's a news flash, too...cities and neighborhoods age. Wonder how the " bones" of the McCities will hold up?

How does one attract a residential and commercial tax base back to the city? By making the city an attractive and, yes , safe place to be. That's what this is about and crime IS being addressed...not as quickly and easily as one would like, but in DOWNTOWN the improvement is visible and dramatic if one BOTHERS to look at the statistical record in downtown's precinct.

If these bonds get floated, it's just a matter of time before Jackson ends up just like Jefferson County, Alabama. Totally broke!! If they're going to hang out that much debt, they ought to do it to make infrastructure improvements so they won't have to pay businesses to locate within the city.

@March 6, 2012 5:36 PM--excellent comment and observation.

Looks like the Chief of DJP Cadets, er, one of the pollyannas from the Central Welfare & Bailout District has wandered over to spread their bullshit.

The downtown strategy is a failure. Sorry you don't "get it".

Right on 9:39. Too bad 10:00 is so jaded and negative, but we have gotten used to him. Same song, all day long, all over the blogs.

I live down here at the Standard Life and love it.

when does BB King's Blues place open?

Kingfish, it's a shame this site has turned into such an anti-Jackson mosh. I like your reporting, and appreciate some of your posters' viewpoints and opinions, but too often these days the comment section is filled with the same old tired Jackson-basher cookie cutter comments.

"Shots fired... that ought to bring conventioners". Great point, fella. Very helpful. I bet someone has fired a gun before in Mobile, Alabama, too, but they seem to be making progress. Little Rock. Huntsville. Chatanooga. Des Moines. Oklahoma City. All these cities have issues too, but they also have people who can see through that and want to contribute to moving their city forward.

Mr/Mrs. Negative: What would you have Jackson (and the people who care about her) do - give up trying to develop? Quit trying anything new? Is that how you lived your life? Is that what you teach your kids? I bet you have that famous quote on your kitchen wall... "When the going gets tough - the tough QUIT TRYING"

12:16, Here's what I'd have Jackson do:

Blow up JPS. Jackson's woes start and end with the schools. Until somebody gets serious about making JPS a successful district, then the rest of this discussion is moot. The dwindling tax base is related to the crime which is caused by a bunch of idiots that either didn't finish JPS or decided they didn't want to be productive members of society. If the schools are in good shape then we can talk about expanding downtown or any other area of Jackson. And perhaps then these things just might pay for themselves in the form of private financing.

"The downtown strategy is a failure. Sorry you don't "get it"."

That is the singularly stupidest comment made to date on this blog.

Yes 10 even 5 years ago, the downtown was in much better shape than today. Right?

Small minded, midget brained, frustrated little racist.

Please do come to the grand opening of the Westin Hotel.

1:39 very poor grammar.

All these kinds of negative comments were also said about the King Edward and Standard Life Buildings. But look at them now! The apartments in these buildings are all rented out and the hotel is apparently decent enough and safe enough that even Mitt Romney is staying there tonight.

We need a convention center hotel. We need to provide more decent accommodations for tourists and convention-goers. And they need something to do when they are in town. We need to encourage and invest in that in a way that creates jobs, brings some stability and tax revenue and doesn't put the city at risk financially. And we need to take a little pride in our capitol city. What we don't need is members of the City Council and the Redevelopment Authority, Jackson-haters and people with personal axes to grind standing in a circular firing squad and aiming at everyone who tries to do business in the city.

As for the CC hotel. we damn sure didn't need to spend $100 million on cotton-pickin' hotel and pay all the Mayor's buddies $1-2 million EACH in fees. Damn thieves. ALL OF THEM!!! Oh, and at some point TCI probably would've filed bankruptcy and stuck us with the whole damn thing.

9:39 is repetitive, predictable and OLD, but we like having him around to thank God we are not like him. He is like Rebel 18 on the old CL sports blog.

He really does need to get a job and a life other than cyberspace though.

My bad. That would be 10:00. 9:39 rocks.

All these kinds of negative comments were also said about the King Edward and Standard Life Buildings. But look at them now!

Look at them now but sure as heck don't look for any of the taxes they are injecting into the treasury because there won't be any for a decade. Watkins will sell the properties before the Christmas Tree of tax spiffs, giveaways, abatements and kickbacks local, county and state government gave him runs out. Great building, nice renovation but the taxpayers have been bent over and reamed to retain that bit of architectural history.

The apartments in these buildings are all rented out ...

There you go again. That is taxpayer subsidized housing. The rental housing in the KE/SL is a neo-version of Section 8 housing for professionals, progressives and creative groupniks. If Watkins had to actually pay like everyone else for city services and property taxes the rent on those apartments would be 50-100% higher.

What we don't need is members of the City Council and the Redevelopment Authority, Jackson-haters and people with personal axes to grind standing in a circular firing squad and aiming at everyone who tries to do business in the city.

The only thing here that is circular is the circle whack off going on between Harvey, the JRA, the City Council and DJP that keeps chasing a failed downtown plan with massive injections of new long term taxpayer backed bad debt to fund more pie-in-the-sky Ponzi scheme pipe dreams.

The focus on downtown isn't going to save Jackson. Downtown isn't going to generate enough money to hire more police and firefighters, isn't going to make enough to pay them more, isn't going to grow Jackson's population and tax base, isn't going to get the streets fixed nor stop water pipes from bursting nor raw sewage from flowing into our waterways and people's backyards.

The downtown strategy is a COMPLETE failure. The Convention Center is a failure.

10 years ago, 5 years ago, NOW, a decade from now. Downtown will never pay off the taxpayer investment. The downtown strategy is no different that the JPS strategy. FAILURE.

RIGHT ON!! Deja Mooooooo

The TCI deal would have been horrible. Fortunately...that's not going to happen. But we still need a convention center hotel.

@6:02 is a COMPLETE moron. He's just spewing out false information and assumptions to justify a pre-determined conclusion. I know it will be a shame for him when people succeed. What will he do with all his hatred? "Creative Groupniks?" Really?

Earth calling 12:16 :

The comment to which you refer didn't just say "shots fired", the comment was "Shots fired
at a JATRAN Bus"

A Friggin' JATRAN BUS !

Not "shots fired" at crack deal gone bad, or Son shoots his Dad over use of prepaid phone card
....you know, the normal daily shootings.

But "SHOT'S FIRED" at a damn public transportation bus .

I wouldn't have a convention in Jackson either.

OK KF..imagine all the people you don't like that are in power in Jackson are gone.
What is YOUR plan ?
How would you bring back the tax base? How would you get money for infrastructure?

6:02. 100% of nothing is nothing. That is the revenue brought in by the King Edward from 1967 until 2 years ago.

Same with Standard Life before it was privatized. Your asinine comment would be to say that the city and state would be better off had they never been re-habbed and privatized.

The Robert E. Lee Hotel is now owned by the state. If privatized, the developer will use tax credits to re-hab.

So you are saying, with your illogical "logic", that we (city and state) should keep this building as a tax free, state owned edifice, rather than use nationally recognized tax credit opportunities, that a risk-taker (developer) can utilize to hopefully turn a profit and re-hab the building?

ANSWER THE QUESTION:

Is our city and state better off WITH or WITHOUT the new King Edward and Standard Life, right now and in the future, or would the city and state be better off had neither of these (your bogus words) "Ponzi Scheme" developments happened?

Such a sad, little negative nerd you are.

Answer the question.

March 8, 2012 7:11 AM

Why not ask the people who moved in there? Ask them about their opinion of the development that occurred as a result of the KE? Little. What is their biggest gripe? A palm tree in the middle of the desert.

As for patrons of the Hotel, I WAS one. Not any more. Too dangerous and frankly the hookers were a bit of a turn off; especially for my out of town guest who got to witness the "revitalization" of DT Jax.

The commitment by the developer is obviously limited to "government funded" limited investment. Otherwise, under your presentation, DT should be booming.

It is not.

7:20 I don't need to ask the residents who live there. I see them every day as I live in the Standard Life.

Both the SL and KE remain full with a waiting list. I am surprised that a bold blogger like you would be run off from the "boogie bears" downtown. 32% of the residents in both building are female.

Woosie for sure.

Nanny nanny boo boo.

NOW....answer the question.

2000 conventions and meetings attendance was 126 million attendees.

2010 conventions and meetings attendance was 86 million attendees.

2000 vs 2010 = -32% Decrease

1990 available convention space was 40 million square feet.

2010 available convention space was 70 million square feet.

1990 vs 2010 = +75% Increase

What is your point 10:43 (the guy that talks to himself all day long, responding to his own negative posts)?

The JCC is built with a super majority of voter approval. DEAL WITH IT.

Now answer the GD question.

IS THE CITY AND STATE BETTER OFF WITH OR WITHOUT THE DEVELPMENT OF THE KE/SL OR NOT?

11:25,

Now I'm no math genius, but it looks like 10:43 was trying to tell you that although demand for convention center floor space has gone down, the amount of space available has gone up. I'm not an economic genius either but even I can see where that would be a problem. And just because the voters approved doesn't mean it was a good investment on the city's part.

Hell, those same people managed to elect a Stokes to the City Council. Again.

http://cl.publicaster.com/ViewInBrowser.aspx?pubids=8302%7C70%7C669%7C5&digest=JTn0DlWvr4zdnYMIP4C8xg&sysid=1

Educate yourself....Two sides of any story.

2:23,

A column saying the convention center can't be successful without Jackson first spending more? That's the other side?

YAWN (on steroids)

ill answer your god damn question 11:25am i dont think either one of these business developments has had one shit licking difference on the economics of our great city... Except for there is a place for the yuppies and people of entitlement to go or live. So bravo in herding the asses of our society.

The estimate of $75 million in economic impact is as bogus as a $3 dollar bill.

Um, to the "I wanna answer, waaah, answer me" person. Ibid 4:17PM

To March 7, 2012 1:39 PM:

Playing the race card where no mention of race existed? Nice.

March 7, 2012 1:39 PM:

Claiming racism where there was no previous mention of race? Nice.

I raise this question to only the people who know how to complete thoughts and sentences; what should the city of jacksons government spend its tax dollars on? If not for downtown development, what and where else? And I promise I want kick and scream and pout if no one answers my question.

This commenter nailed it:

" What about taking the debt and funneling to green energy start ups that will hire Jackson's unemployed and invent technology that will make us independent of foreign oil and boost our economy. No wait......Obama already did that with federal money, lost billions, and has nothing to show for it.

The government has no business subsidizing private business and picking winners and losers in effect. You privatize profits and socialize losses in this manner. Central planning is best left to the communists or other on the road to serfdom
March 6, 2012 7:28 PM "

4:06 you are a DUNCE. Look around the world. Get out more. Visit places and get involved with the Chamber. Learn. You are an idiot, and a depressed, sad dude.

5:08

Accept reality.

The "progressives" have lost Jackson.

Yeah, The King Edward and Standard Life flats are too cool. I understand there is a waiting list to get in.

Why ?

Those one million dollar per pop Farish Street Juke joints won't last three months.

However, I agree that the bail bondsmen and Peoples Funeral are poised to make allot of money.

"Yeah, The King Edward and Standard Life flats are too cool. I understand there is a waiting list to get in."

"The "progressives" have lost Jackson."


We are "losing" alright. Fondren is COMPLETELY leased as well. NOT ONE INCH of property available to lease...NADA....ZIP....NONE. All apartments LEASED too.

What a way to "lose". Loser.

LMFAO at Y D A.

March 11, 2012 6:02 PM is a textbook case of tunnel vision.

6;02 PM Been robbed lately? Or do you know a neighbor assaulted? Maybe a carjacking.

Yeah, Fondren is great, if you are fool.

Long live the midnight sun