Wednesday, February 29, 2012

Sun-Herald tries to dig into the 13th check

Collection of all posts on PERS

The Biloxi Sun-Herald tried to find out how much the "13th check" paid to PERS retirees is each year. PERS refused to provide the information and as it turns out, would not provide that information to the PERS Study Commission either. Read on.

"Retirement incomes for public employees are a state secret in Mississippi, including extra pay that now consumes 25 percent of the annual retirement payroll....

The commission wanted specific amounts for the 13th check, but commission chairman George Schloegel said PERS never supplied the figures.

“We were told it’s just not available,” said Schloegel, a retired banker and mayor of Gulfport. “It’s pretty obvious they don’t want to talk about the 13th check. My question is, ‘Why?’”

The 13th check is paid in mid-December, just in time for the holidays. The Sun Herald in January requested a copy of payroll records for mid-December that would show individual amounts paid in the 13th checks, plus the December payroll for monthly retirement checks.

PERS denied the newspaper’s request for retiree payrolls. PERS, relying on its staff attorney in the state Attorney General’s Office, said the payrolls are confidential
...."

How much could this check be? The newspaper published a separate story on the 13th. Keep in mind the 13th check is not a cost of living adjustment but is instead an automatic raise:

"The COLA is not tied to any inflation index. It starts at 3 percent of the annual retirement allowance, then compounds annually when a member reaches age 60, or 55 for those who joined PERS before July 1. Most retired employees choose to receive the COLA in a lump sum, so it is referred to as the “13th check.”

COLA payments for the fiscal year that ended June 30 totaled $368,645,000, according to PERS’ annual report, 25 percent of the total PERS payout for the year. Those payments are projected to increase in 2012 by $40 million, Schloegel said.

The 13th check winds up being higher than a retiree’s base retirement allowance by the 24th year of retirement, a PERS chart shows.

PERS would not release the individual amounts paid out in COLAs -- to the study commission or the Sun Herald. The director, Pat Robertson, cited a state law that says individual retiree files are confidential. However, both the commission and the Sun Herald requested the information without names attached.

Robertson did calculate “hypothetical” retirement figures for the Sun Herald. The Sun Herald submitted employee positions and salaries provided by the state Personnel Board for PERS to calculate. An employee who retired in 1985, with an average salary calculated at $18,935 a year, would today receive a base annual benefit of $11,834. The retiree’s 13th check would be $13,688. Total retirement pay, in this case, equals $25,522 a year.
..." Article

Editorial comment: For the record, I think the COLA should be a real COLA tied to the inflation rate. However, I also think it should be tied to the headline inflation rate, not the core or overall rate as headline is what consumers are usually experiencing.


39 comments:

Anonymous said...

The average inflation rate for the last 97 years has been 3.35%. The average has been 2.42% for the last decade. But if you go back 3 decades to 1979 the average jumps to 3.86%. I am ok with the 3% COLA. I am also ok with connecting the COLA to the actual inflation rate, but only if there is no maximum cap attached, and the calculation is based on the actual rate (13.5% in 1980, 5.4% in 1990). I got these rates from www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/historical-inflation-rates/

Anonymous said...

So, in summary, taxpayers are not entitled to know how much money (in total) they are paying for 13th checks? Or how each person is receiving? My state salary is apparently a public record - why should the retirement amounts be secret?

Anonymous said...

I don't know where the large amount for the 13th check came from, but my father's 13th check is equal to an additional month's pay.

Anonymous said...

I've got some ocean front property in Arizona I will sell you.

Anonymous said...

I may just be very simple minded here, but since PERS will not cooperate with the PERS Commission, then its time for PERS Commission to go to the State Auditor. State Auditor has access to this info, whether PERS wants to hide it or not.

Anonymous said...

As I understand the history of the 3% COLA, originally the COLA was based on the annual inflation rate. At a time when the inflation rate was high (say 5 or 6%) and had been high for several years, the legislature decided to make it a straight 3% to save money. Many of the long-time retirees have a relatively large 13th check because of the earlier high percentage COLAs. I think most retirees, myself included, would be happy with a COLA based on an inflation index, like social security uses. Social Security recipients received no COLA for the last several years because there was no inflation. This year social security payments were increased because the inflation index was higher in 2011.

Anonymous said...

It seems to me that the current figures identify the problem quite nicely without speculation about individual differences.

That said, it appears that the State benefits from the current method when inflation is high and loses out when inflation is low.

It would be useful for the opponents of the current plan to suggest alternatives for discussion of the advantages and disadvantages and I'm grateful for10:05am suggestion . I wonder how tying COLA to the SS Index would have worked differently.

Anonymous said...

A retiree may elect to receive their entire benefit, or have 1/12 retained monthly and paid as a
13th check.

Anonymous said...

I think state employees should simply work for free.

Anonymous said...

I looked at the PERS Web site. They post Annual Financial Reports going back to 2005. I reviewed the 2011 report and the info on how much PERS pays out in COLA is in the report. So it appears to me that PERS is not hiding anything and there are just a bunch of really lazy people out there that just want to have something to whine about. It took me only 10 minutes to find the info on the COLA in their report.

Anonymous said...

Then why do you even read here February 29, 2012 11:05 AM?

Kingfish said...

No one is disputing the amount paid out. They are trying to figure out how much it is for actual retirees per retiree.

Anonymous said...

What would that info serve?? Just to be nosy?

Anonymous said...

"Average" wouldn't matter anyway. Someone with higher pay and longer service would be above average, since they would have paid more of their income into the fund. This is not a "gift" to the employee. The politicians are prima donnas, the employees are grunts.

Anonymous said...

They should have access to the same retirement system private sector working stiffs in Mississippi get. And don't give me the "I could be making so much more if I was in the private sector" spiel. If that's true, no one is stopping you.

Anonymous said...

Well. 12:46 pm, sounds like you have pension envy. Nothing is stoping you from getting a job that has a pension.

Anonymous said...

2/3 of jobs in Hds. Co. are city, county, state or federal employees,. What retirement system does the stiff have? social security. Other than govt., work for yourself or work for a piss ant.

Anonymous said...

then the stiff should get a government job.

Anonymous said...

State employees should work for free and be required to wear a tshirt that says "I am a low down government employee that is lazy and stupid, but I have a better retirement system than the rest of you".

Anonymous said...

If we all worked for the government and fed off the taxpayer, like 2:24 recommends, who would be left to actually make the money to pay the long-suffering, noble, yet put-upon, government employee? Whatever happened to that quaint notion that the government worked for the citizen?

Anonymous said...

PERS is a very, very corrupt retirement system and they think they are so big and powerful that no law applies to them. They're a bunch of arrogant bullies!

Anonymous said...

2:51 PM Back up your accusations with facts.

SIGH on the government vs private sector comparison whining. If any of you find that perfect job as an EMPLOYEE rather that individual contractor/owner, let me know.

I know. The grass is always greener. Grow up.

Anonymous said...

Some of the problem exist today because back when the stock market was doing so well PERS, in their infinite wisdom, decided to give retirees additional benefits rather than saving the money for a rainy day. That rainy day will be soon.

KaptKangaroo said...

To the comment, go get a pension: the private sector has been dismantling them for the past 10 years. The government is behind the times. Change must happen for solvency to be maintained for the existing pensioners.

One only has to look at the decisions over the years against riding the market vs. the preservation of capital as a goal. It is not any one person's fault, it is the complexity of the monster called PERS and to some degree poor oversight.

The 13th check is a big issue and an average number could probably be had by analyzing the reports again, but i've gone practically blind reading them. I haven't looked at it in a while. PERS not providing the number doesn't bode well when it comes to those who want to understand PERS. I find it interesting that the 13th check is made up of COLA adjustments and grows at an accelerated rate. I'd like to see the actual dollars year over year on an individual basis.

Anonymous said...

Let's not overlook the fact that 401Ks and IRAs have suffered major loses as well. Those who are living off their retirement investments aren't doing so well.

Do some of you imagine that we should do away with pooling money for retirement investment? You do understand what that would mean in terms of return on investment options, don't you?

KaptKangaroo said...

You are comparing apples and oranges. PERS gets a guaranteed payout. Not so with IRA and 401K. In other words, PERS bears no risk of return even if the principle is miserably funded like it is now.

Nice try.

Anonymous said...

Sounds like the old tortoise and hare story. The 401-K’s (the hare) enjoyed handsome returns over the years, except for the past few years while state employees elected to serve at least 25 years of service, at below average pay. In return state employees have a “contract” with PERS that they will receive retirement benefits plus an additional payment (13th check) that begins compounding annually after the age of 55. I believe PERS has to live up to their contract obligations. For that reason I do believe the tortoise (state employees) is gonna win this race.

Anonymous said...

It is that kind of I'll-informed thinking that got PERS in trouble. Why not equate it to the water in a toilet, while a turd circles the bowl?

Anonymous said...

11:17

Sounds to me like you may be a welfare recipient that doesn’t want to get his payments reduced. Why not get a JOB.

Anonymous said...

Looks to me like the legislature is going to have to make a choice of who is going to bail the state out, the poor or the state retirees. I have my money on the state retirees since all state legisture will be state retirees one day.

Anonymous said...

11:17 here, I was responding to the comment directly above me that equated turtle/hare. You should read closer.

Kingfish said...

You're shooting down 401k plans based on a two year stretch in the stock market is just as ignorant as those who try to use the same logic as PERS. In case you didn't read the audits, PERS lost several billion dollars in the same period as well and guess what? The markets bounced back. You judge performance on the longer periods as they are more accurate. If you didn't dump everything in your 401k a few years ago because you panicked, then your accounts should have come back.

Shadowfax said...

I'll give up on this one now. No way KF will allow anything critical of Kangaroo's continued idiotic rants re PERS. Kudos to myself for attempting, tho'.

KaptKangaroo said...

Shadow, while I commend you for actually reading, I have to ask what do think is idiotic?

I speak from experience on a lot of the issues I see with PERS and the realities of investment principles.

I also speak from experience about sharing my understanding of solid investment to folks who don't even know what the hell to do with a 401k and they tend to be years my senior. I'm not trying to build my ego here. I'm just trying to expand other's understanding of what they are facing.

If you would like to go point by point, I'm sure KF will and should call me out if he disagrees. I can't remember the last time we really spoke about the situation with PERS. We agreed a long time ago, years perhaps.

With the publishing of the documents recently, I decided to waste a bunch of time and try to understand the situation and provide my opinion. If you want to discuss what you see with some semblance of knowledge, do it.

Before you do though, I'm sure I'm sounding redundant at this point, go read the archives. There is a very rich discussion of PERS and some of my opines (right or wrong) are there for the perusing.

Shadowfax said...

The problem I have with your posts re PERS is that I always come away with a view that you have a significant abhorence for people employed in the public sector. It's one thing to critique the savings plan they are roped into; however, it's quite another to make them the culprits as if they're somehow affflicted with some Biblical scourge.

I give you the ultimate due credit for your knowledge in the investments arena; however...well, I won't be redundant.

Anonymous said...

What is truly annoying me this morning is the fact that deputy circuit clerk, Loretta, who cost the Sweet firm nearly ten thousand dollars in trying to get an appeal filed, will benefit from state retirement and quite possibly the 13th check option.
And if anyone believes Barbara Dunn's pitiful claim that she'll "have to borrow the money" to pay the court's fine then they don't know what portion she keeps of filing fees that she pockets on top of her $84,000.00 salary. Other than the cost of the paper the certificate is printed on, she pockets all fees on marriage licenses.

KaptKangaroo said...

Never criticized public service. You are wrong in "your take-away."

Shadowfax said...

@anon 7:33. Stupidity and incompetence find their way into more than a few public sector jobs. The same is true of private sector jobs.

Are you suggesting that the clerk's right to retirement should be withdrawn due to her performance on this occasion?

As is the case in any job, public or private sector, she can be dismissed or the situation can be ignored....or anything in between, up to and including termination.

I'm not advocating for one or the other since I'm not her employer and don't have sufficient facts upon which to decide. I would think (and hope) that if she is found by her employer to have been negligent, she will receive appropriate discipline. That's the way things work. Sorry if that annoys you this morning.

Anonymous said...

i don't know exactly how many tax dollars goes into pers but I know damn well how much pers takes out of MY check each month for MY retirement.. i know pers takes $600.00 - $700.00 a month out of MY check for MY retirement.. So over my 30 years if my pay doesn't increase, I would have put around $252,000.00 into PERS... Maybe instead of complaining about state retirement, get a damn Job and start your own retirement Get a damn life people



Recent Comments

Search Jackson Jambalaya

Subscribe to JJ's Youtube channel

Archives

Trollfest '09

Trollfest '07 was such a success that Jackson Jambalaya will once again host Trollfest '09. Catch this great event which will leave NE Jackson & Fondren in flames. Othor Cain and his band, The Black Power Structure headline the night while Sonjay Poontang returns for an encore performance. Former Frank Melton bodyguard Marcus Wright makes his premier appearance at Trollfest singing "I'm a Sweet Transvestite" from "The Rocky Horror Picture Show." Kamikaze will sing his new hit, “How I sold out to da Man.” Robbie Bell again performs: “Mamas, don't let your babies grow up to be Bells” and “Any friend of Ed Peters is a friend of mine”. After the show, Ms. Bell will autograph copies of her mug shot photos. In a salute to “Dancing with the Stars”, Ms. Bell and Hinds County District Attorney Robert Smith will dance the Wango Tango.

Wrestling returns, except this time it will be a Battle Royal with Othor Cain, Ben Allen, Kim Wade, Haley Fisackerly, Alan Lange, and “Big Cat” Donna Ladd all in the ring at the same time. The Battle Royal will be in a steel cage, no time limit, no referee, and the losers must leave town. Marshand Crisler will be the honorary referee (as it gives him a title without actually having to do anything).


Meet KIM Waaaaaade at the Entergy Tent. For five pesos, Kim will sell you a chance to win a deed to a crack house on Ridgeway Street stuffed in the Howard Industries pinata. Don't worry if the pinata is beaten to shreds, as Mr. Wade has Jose, Emmanuel, and Carlos, all illegal immigrants, available as replacements for the it. Upon leaving the Entergy tent, fig leaves will be available in case Entergy literally takes everything you have as part of its Trollfest ticket price adjustment charge.

Donna Ladd of The Jackson Free Press will give several classes on learning how to write. Smearing, writing without factchecking, and reporting only one side of a story will be covered. A donation to pay their taxes will be accepted and she will be signing copies of their former federal tax liens. Ms. Ladd will give a dramatic reading of her two award-winning essays (They received The Jackson Free Press "Best Of" awards.) "Why everything is always about me" and "Why I cover murders better than anyone else in Jackson".

In the spirit of helping those who are less fortunate, Trollfest '09 adopts a cause for which a portion of the proceeds and donations will be donated: Keeping Frank Melton in his home. The “Keep Frank Melton From Being Homeless” booth will sell chances for five dollars to pin the tail on the jackass. John Reeves has graciously volunteered to be the jackass for this honorable excursion into saving Frank's ass. What's an ass between two friends after all? If Mr. Reeves is unable to um, perform, Speaker Billy McCoy has also volunteered as when the word “jackass” was mentioned he immediately ran as fast as he could to sign up.


In order to help clean up the legal profession, Adam Kilgore of the Mississippi Bar will be giving away free, round-trip plane tickets to the North Pole where they keep their bar complaint forms (which are NOT available online). If you don't want to go to the North Pole, you can enjoy Brant Brantley's (of the Mississippi Commission on Judicial Performance) free guided tours of the quicksand field over by High Street where all complaints against judges disappear. If for some reason you are unable to control yourself, never fear; Judge Houston Patton will operate his jail where no lawyers are needed or allowed as you just sit there for minutes... hours.... months...years until he decides he is tired of you sitting in his jail. Do not think Judge Patton is a bad judge however as he plans to serve free Mad Dog 20/20 to all inmates.

Trollfest '09 is a pet-friendly event as well. Feel free to bring your dog with you and do not worry if your pet gets hungry, as employees of the Jackson Zoo will be on hand to provide some of their animals as food when it gets to be feeding time for your little loved one.

Relax at the Fox News Tent. Since there are only three blonde reporters in Jackson (being blonde is a requirement for working at Fox News), Megan and Kathryn from WAPT and Wendy from WLBT will be on loan to Fox. To gain admittance to the VIP section, bring either your Republican Party ID card or a Rebel Flag. Bringing both and a torn-up Obama yard sign will entitle you to free drinks served by Megan, Wendy, and Kathryn. Get your tickets now. Since this is an event for trolls, no ID is required. Just bring the hate. Bring the family, Trollfest '09 is for EVERYONE!!!

This is definitely a Beaver production.


Note: Security provided by INS.

Trollfest '07

Jackson Jambalaya is the home of Trollfest '07. Catch this great event which promises to leave NE Jackson & Fondren in flames. Sonjay Poontang and his band headline the night with a special steel cage, no time limit "loser must leave town" bout between Alan Lange and "Big Cat"Donna Ladd following afterwards. Kamikaze will perform his new song F*** Bush, he's still a _____. Did I mention there was no referee? Dr. Heddy Matthias and Lori Gregory will face off in the undercard dueling with dangling participles and other um, devices. Robbie Bell will perform Her two latest songs: My Best Friends are in the Media and Mama's, Don't Let Your Babies Grow up to be George Bell. Sid Salter of The Clarion-Ledger will host "Pin the Tail on the Trial Lawyer", sponsored by State Farm.

There will be a hugging booth where in exchange for your young son, Frank Melton will give you a loooong hug. Trollfest will have a dunking booth where Muhammed the terrorist will curse you to Allah as you try to hit a target that will drop him into a vat of pig grease. However, in the true spirit of Separate But Equal, Don Imus and someone from NE Jackson will also sit in the dunking booth for an equal amount of time. Tom Head will give a reading for two hours on why he can't figure out who the hell he is. Cliff Cargill will give lessons with his .80 caliber desert eagle, using Frank Melton photos as targets. Tackleberry will be on hand for an autograph session. KIM Waaaaaade will be passing out free titles and deeds to crackhouses formerly owned by The Wood Street Players.

If you get tired come relax at the Fox News Tent. To gain admittance to the VIP section, bring either your Republican Party ID card or a Rebel Flag. Bringing both will entitle you to free drinks.Get your tickets now. Since this is an event for trolls, no ID is required, just bring the hate. Bring the family, Trollfest '07 is for EVERYONE!!!

This is definitely a Beaver production.

Note: Security provided by INS
.