"From each according to his ability to each according to his needs." Karl Marx.
Property values, not water usage, might determine how much Jackson residents pay for water service if Jackson Water Manager Ted Henefin has his way. WLBT reported December 12:
Jackson Mayor Chokwe Antar Lumumba pumped the brakes Monday on talks the city’s water rate structure would soon be changing, telling the press that any ideas being floated right now are simply that, ideas.
“What Ted may have shared is only in the idea phase at this time,” Lumumba said. “It has not been fully vetted out. But if that shift were to take place, you can rest assured it will be done from a fully informed standpoint.”... (KF: Um, Mayor, that's not your call to make. You don't have the power to tell the manager what to do - on anything.).
What ideas were those?
A couple of ideas Henifin has proposed include replacing the city’s current rate structure based on hundred cubic feet used to one based at least in part on customers’ property values.
However, he said the income-driven idea is likely off the table.
“We’ve been able to benefit from watching those early adopters to try to figure that out,” he said. “[In] Philadelphia, it’s been a big challenge, because you’ve got to verify income, and there’s a process people have to go through... There’s not like a national clearinghouse for income, and IRS doesn’t divulge that information.”
“So, if you can imagine a utility with a lot of customers, you know, Philadelphia’s got a tremendous number of customers, but even at the size of Jackson... it’s a huge administrative burden.”
Not to mention freedom, liberty, curtailing government intrusion. Why should the Mayor know how much you make? But don't worry, Mr Henefin has a better idea.
Unlike income information, Henifin said property records are readily available in most communities, including in Hinds County.
“You go to your [tax] assessor’s database, you can see the size of the parcel, the size of the unit, the values of those things,” he said. “You know, there’s a number of property information records in everybody’s assessors’ database.”
Rates would then be based on a certain factor applied to a person’s property value.
“You multiply it out and divide it by 12 and their water bill ends up being approximately 2 percent of the income in the census tract in which they live,” he said.
He said rates would be capped at a certain level to ensure that no customers had artificially high bills. “So, if you had a really high-income person, you wouldn’t expect them to pay $200, more than $200 a month for their water. But you might expect them to pay 150. And they could afford it, because it would be... less than 2 percent of their income.”
The idea has been studied by the U.S. Water Alliance, a nonprofit that is working toward making water more affordable for all, using data from Cincinnati and Milwaukee.
Henifin said, if it was approved, Jackson would be the first city to implement a property value-driven program.
Council President Ashby Foote says the idea is “fairer” than what’s happening under Jackson’s current billing system, where many customers receive statements that are thousands of dollars too high or simply no bills at all.
“At this point, the federal government is in charge of the plants, the delivery system, the billing system,” Foote said. “The important thing is... he get[s] everybody to pay.”
Sorry, Mr. Foote, we are going to disagree on this one. However, the "Receiver" justified using property values to determine water rates:
Henifin said meters would be a non-factor under a rate structure based on property values.
“You no longer have people arguing about meters, you don’t have to worry about meters, you don’t have to worry about people getting a bad bill because they had a bad meter read, you don’t have to have meter readers out there. You don’t have to be repairing meters,” he said. “Everyone’s paying the same rate times their property value. Everyone’s paying the same thing.”
Kingfish note: Not just no but hell no. Don't be shocked if the Legislature stops this little idea in its tracks.
67 comments:
There is absolutely nothing wrong with self-determined Marxism. If the Democratic Peoples Republique of New Afrika wants to practice Marxism, then I say let them!
It just needs to stay within their borders! Anyone still living within the borders of Lumumba’s Kingdom of Kush deserves what they get!
Well what’s your solution then?
So if you own a $500,000 house in Jackson with a $400,000 balance, for water billing purposes you will be treated as though you have a $500,000 asset without a mortgage.
The reason the water bills are so high is because they haven't been sending them and the program is not billing correctly. A $200 water bill is absurd! and Ashby, go **** yourself. What's fixing to happen is "the haves" are going to abandon Jackson and leave their properties to the "have nots", so it's a win/win for Chokwe and the Kushites. Tax the "haves" and they pay it, or they leave town and the "have nots" take over what they had. All part of the plan. Extort them for money, or extort them for their property.
Can you imagine the outrage if social security and healthcare benefits were dolled out based on the amount a person contributes to society?
This brings to mind the scene in Dr. Zhivago where the communists moved in the Zhivago home and took over.
Of course the aristocratic Jacksonian who inherited their estate will oppose this!
Lmao, meanwhile I’m here in rural Rankin on 40 agricultural acres with a private well and a 4000 sq ft home!
As I posted days ago, "Ted" is a socialist/liberal/progressive. This is why hizzoner strongly supported this appointment.
So legality aside, if they wouldn't use meters anymore, essentially the price of water would be fixed based on property value as opposed to variable based on usage? Thus zero financial incentive to reduce water consumption?
Is it possible we'd be the "first city to implement a property value-driven program" because it's a stupid idea? Let's start with collecting on the water bills that have been stranded or ignored for years due to the moratorium on shut-offs before we try to reinvent the wheel unnecessarily...
Socialism.... what the hell is wrong with these people?
My lawn will be green, my cars will be clean, I can wash my favorite pair of underwear every night so I can wear them every day, I can take 3 showers a day if I want, ...
Making poor people in Jackson (which is 98.5% Black) pay for the water they consume is a flagrant act of environmental racism.
Good for the mayor for making the 1% of white people pay for redistributive justice.
“ Well what’s your solution then?
December 15, 2022 at 9:38 AM”
What kind of dumb question is this? How about use the same structure that every other water system uses: PAY FOR WHAT YOU USE
I'm not sure that Mr. Heflin understands that he has not been given the authority to violate state law. He has made some "interesting" statements about procurement and contracting. There is a certain amount of flexibility under a proclamation of local emergency, but it is not absolute. Hopefully, he will have a good lawyer on his management team.
This is nuts.
If you drive an expensive car, does your 89 octane gas cost more at the gas station? NO!
This will be the final straw for the NE Jackson home owners.
I think we all will move out of the city.
Sad.
Since under Henifin's Bolshevik Plan, property owners pay a tax on their property to Animal Farm for water/sewer/trash, a referendum will be required. Will non-property owners be able to vote a tax on property owners?
Jackson just crawled up the Governor's ass again.
Uncle Ted, big problem with your census block flat rate plan.
Sewer rates in Jackson are indexed to actual measured water usage.
Oooops.
This is such a good example of Lumumba's dipshit administration. When it looks like a problem (the water system) was possibly on the mend, they just step in and find a way to screw it up further.
If(big IF) this is even legal and gets implemented, I would let the water run 24/7/365 and encourage every overcharged person to do the same. Hell, I'd run a hose to the nearest ditch and fill it up in a revolt. If all of NE Jackson did this in protest, it will make the fake flooding event at OB Curtis look like small fries. For all the lawyers on his team, letting his float this idea is totally ignorant.
Seems like a slippery slope. What will follow? Electric, gas, cell bill, cable, gas for the Mercedes.....
I'd eat my ate if anyone on Jackson Jambalaya had actually read Das Kapital
I love it!
Mississippi, the state of ignorance!
The state who’s entire economy (and population) depends on federal pork!
Tax dollars taken from states with trillion dollar economies like California, New York, etc!
Y’all have the audacity to call Jackson “Marxist”
I already subsidize a lot of capable folks bumming off of others. If that happens with Jackson water, I’m out. I’m not paying for more water than I actually use.
There will be no incentive to get water leaks fixed or running toilets fixed. There will be an environmental cost as well as a less efficient water distribution system that wastes water. The EPA and the DEQ should weigh in on this.
No idea if this is against state law. If it’s not, the legislature should pass a law that prohibits it, to help save the planet from environmental destruction.
Through Antard's pleas for water conservation right out his Eastmont mansion windows.
Good grief!
If they can not afford their water bill,and qualify financially, they would have already met the requirements for public assistance.
And, in rental property, they are probably paying for water leaks under the toilet, under the house and maybe even already have pots catching roof leaks.
I might agree with you if the owner has to paid for usage, but in rental properties, that is seldom the case.
Try to understand the realities and details before some of you opine. You just make yourself looks clueless or like the "elites" you love to hate. It's actually the well-educated ,not elites,you love to hate because they make you feel inferior. You could stop proving them right by actually using your brain and eye hand coordination to read before opining.
Few of you have no clue of the differences in Das Kapital, Mein Kampe and Locke or any other capitalistic economist when it comes to what is or isn't the government's role in a society.
Please, do due diligence in getting ALL the facts before opining! You have not read any current socio-economic assessment of African American income in Jackson.
And, each one of you wrongly assume I'm a Democrat and Black reading this.
NO, I'm one of those "swing voters" who is fiscally conservative but is weary of venomous misinformation and knee jerk reactions that now infest the GOP!
@9:38 concedes failure.
So they are saying they wasted all the money they just spent to complete the meter installation?? smh...these guys are a special kinda stupid.
I guess the hope that Jackson would have someone competent to run the water system is now dead. If this is Heflin’s idea of how to manage the system, he doesn’t appear to be competent to run the system. Even more people will be leaving Jackson and property values will decline more. And water conservation? Pfff.
How would Ted like getting paid based upon how Jackson is doing fiscally
Karl Marx was a "capitalistic economist?" Who knew?
One thing about this new plan is it gets around not having a system where water meters meter and billing systems bill. Both operating in concert, and with accuracy...NEVER MIND!!!!!!!!!!!
if they do this, i'll just leave all my sinks running 24/7
Is this an admission that Jackson cannot fix the meter and billing system?
This sounds like a Lumumba/Omari idea to me, and a quick-fix for an irretrievably-broken system, which may appeal to the manager.
10:01 - And how has that been going?
I have no problem paying more for water because I live in an expensive house. But let’s just be consistent. I want the streets in my expensive neighborhood paved more often than the poor neighborhoods. I also want more police patrolling my expensive neighborhood compared to poorer neighborhoods.
Just what Jxn needs even more of a reason for middle an upper class families to leave.
How did Asby Foote get INTO...much less, GRADUATE from West Point??
Can't wait to see the firesale on Jackson homes.
Perhaps one of the dumbest ideas I've ever heard in over half a decade of living. Brilliant in its stupidity and kudos for thinking outside the box. I mean what could go wrong fixing the problem of people not paying for what they use by implementing a system where it is normal to not pay for what you use. Basically just redefining what is, and isn't, a problem. Now some industrious folks should be considering operating a chain of home based car washes. If we can somehow get soap to be free, there would be no COGS but labor!
1:09 PM
Everywhere else but Jackson? Swimmingly.
@2:20 is very smart for a five year old.
Y'all had to know that if Chokweed was in favor a white person taking over "his" system, that person had to be in lock step ideologically with his Marxist views. Otherwise, he would have fought tooth-and-nail to have a black person put in charge.
11:51
Mein Kampe? Did you mean Mein Kampf? Who knew Adolph Hitler was an economist. I sure didn't.
December 15, 2022 at 11:51 AM = just left of Bernie Sanders.
Ya know, when I heard that EPA had installed this Ted Henifin guy, rather than letting the current administration do it, I had to do a search for him to see what he was about. When I did, and when I saw him, I was immediately suspect about his selection, because there was no record of Baby Chok having spontaneously combusted. That would be the reaction I would have expected upon the involuntary installation of a white guy to correct the biggest public screw up (so far) caused by this administration. However, upon digging deeper, and seeing suggestions coming from him like the topic of this thread, I now see what's going on. Anyone with half a brain should be able to see it.
Oh, and 2:20, for someone who is a little older than 5, that was a pretty good assessment!
There will have to be a base fee for every meter.
Renters will take it on the chin.
Business will too.
Water rates will have to go up 10% a year for the next 15 years to come close to paying for what is needed.
Everyone who works in Jackson should pay the water bills for everyone who doesn’t work. That’s the way the rest of society operates these days.
@2:20 PM
Half a decade you say? That’s a pretty strong opinion for a 5 year old!
Maybe you meant half a century, but Mississippi Public Schools failed you!
What's the usual cackling from those that remain in Jackson ?
"But, But, But, Jackson is so convenient...we don't have to commute in I-55 traffic".
( That one really makes me laugh).
And while their water is never guaranteed to work, when it does ... they now might be charged based upon property value ?
2:20 PM So you're five. Probably not old enough to be posting here.
Y’all come to Gluckstadt. Our water runs with no issues. My friends in Flowood and Brandon say their water is great also.
One solution would be for your rate per 100 cf be indexed to your property value. For example, someone in a $500,000 home would pay $20 per 100 cf, someone in an $60,000 home pay $8 per 100 cf. Still wrong, but way better than a flat rate that would overwhelm both the water and sewer treatment plants due to there being no incentive to save water.
@2:20pm - helluva comment for a 5 year old.
I'm all for the Mississippi subsidies from NY and California to end. If Ms pulled it's weight, the handouts would end and freeloaders would move out to a state with handouts. Crime would plummet and Ms would be a nice place to live.
I do find it odd that almost immediately after Ted Henefin arrived in Jackson, Chokwalips referred to him as simply "Ted." That sure seems unprofessional and too chummy for me.
Has to be some legal barrier to this.
Either a firesale of homes or everyone will stop paying water bills.
December 15, 2022 at 10:27 AM, has brought up an interesting question. Would the flat rate cover sewer cost?
December 15, 2022 at 9:38 AM, I don't know, how about something that has worked everywhere it has been tried.
The old fashion pay for what you use plan. If you can't pay for it, don't use it.
Prioritize the user's spending habits to put necessities first. Kind of like pay your water bill before you waste money getting your nails, and hair done.
Maybe hold off on those 32-inch spinner wheels, and that new Glock, use the money to keep the water flowing. There's many, many more hints where these came from.
Everyday I am more and more thankful that I left that hell scape of a city before property values plummeted.
It will be fascinating to watch the old-money white-guilt folks that stayed try to keep up their routine of admonishing those of us that did not want to sacrifice our safety in the name of social justice. Enjoy. This is what you voted for.
I think I can actually hear Tate Reeves laughing.
12:11 If you live in Jackson, you'll know the meter installation is prioritized.
I have a new one. Not everyone in my neighborhood does as yet. I have a relatively high usage as I have a sprinkler system as well as a washing machine and several bathrooms.
I'm sure businesses with high water usage. My meter is easily assessable for replacement.
Would some of you try to think about how things should work before weighing in?
I like the new meter. It's easy to read and appears to function well.
Unlike Podunk, MS, Jackson still has the largest population and thanks to some of you, the smallest share of revenues.
Mississippi's laws are all about favoring rural life. Our Constitution was written FOR the "planters".
What you really should be incensed over is a rural community that isn't doing well.It screams either incompetence or corruption!
December 17, 2022 at 8:53 AM, would you like to point out a rural water system the state had to bail out like the Jackson water system was?
8:53 Not sure how to take your comments. It's hard to read... are those all paragraphs? Is that the way you talk when trying to explain yourself? Its seems as tho you're grasping for air.
It also seems as you're trying to impress that you have "a sprinkler system as well as a washing machine and several bathrooms..." sorta like the Clampitts?
1-25 AM, evidently you have not read the Judge's order, or for that matter, not know much about existing state law and processes without the said order establishing a dictatorship in Jackson's water system operation.
No referendum would be required. Don't know where you come up with that idea, but we don't in this country operate by referendum (not even for important things like designing - 2001 - or changing - 2020) a state flag. Some folks think that setting Medicaid reimbursement rates, tax levels, etc are fine to leave up to the elected representatives, but that on things they give a shit about (flag???) it requires a vote.
But neither way - water rates being changed could be done prior to November by the City Council; now they can be done by the Man from Glad that is here to clean up Lumumba's mess.
8:53, you try to make it look like you know what the hell you are talking about, but you failed. (It looked good - but your facts aren't even close)
To say that Jackson has the 'smallest share of revenues' is pure bulls**t. You are trying to copy Lumumba's claims, but fail to include all the payments that Jackson receives. Easy to ignore because you take too much of it for granted, but if you did any research rather than just parrot a line that hizzoner fed to the national media and you heard and thought it was a good line - you would know that claim doesn't hold water.
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