Jackson Jambalaya

"During the school’s sports seasons an independent team can be made up of no more than 50% of the number that make up the starting number of players for that sport from any one school. The penalty for this violation is the loss of eligibility of all participants from the school that participated on the team. School personnel cannot coach an independent team
during the school year. NOTE: Only 4 players per school may participate on a baseball or fast pitch softball team, 2
basketball players, 5 soccer or slow pitch players, etc. Exception: five starters in soccer must be identified by the coach.
Independent teams may participate in summer league post season play through August"

I don't care one way or the other, but if this is the rule, can someone tell me the salience of "starting" number? I don't see the word reference at all in this petition.

Soccer has always claimed to be "different" and claims they should have a different set of rules. MHSAA made its biggest mistake trying to bend things to help soccer. Either we want high school teams practicing year round, or we don't. It amazes me how worked these parents get over club soccer, all so Johnny can one day say he played junior college soccer.

the rules are far from "arbitrary". nobody has a problem with football being restricted to starting dates, and no year-round practice. this is high school sports, not a full time job.

these parents cart their kids across the country year-round in hopes of getting noticed by a college coach. in some ways, club soccer IS a full time endeavor. In a twisted sort of way, they think their high school should feel honored by their presence and the fact that they stoop to play an inferior brand of soccer, which is high school. they bash high school soccer all day long, but then they beg to play.

The problem is MHSAA trying to dictate what the kids do OUTSIDE of their high school team.

Club soccer is more than trying to play "junior college" soccer. It's an activity that keeps the kids busy, fit and out of trouble.

Sounds like the MHSAA is trying to be a MINI-ME NCAA. I dont see what a student does outside school grounds is any business of MHSAA. Since high school soccer is not that big a deal and its only 3 months and in the winter, here is a suggestion. Everybody just quit MHSAA and play league. See how easy that was. Your welcome!

so if Provine's basketball coach tells his team to play AAU together for the other 9 months of the year or else they can't play for his HS team, that's ok? That's where all of this started, the rules limit organized practice by the high school team outside of their season, otherwise all sports would practice year-round. The kids are free to play club, the association is just trying to not let the whole high school team play club together year-round. but again, its just soccer folks that can't accept it.

The rule is stupid. The end result is that high school soccer will suffer a lack of quality. Club soccer players will continue to play club and just quit playing for the school. Soccer IS different than any of the other sports. The highest level clubs and coaches tend to focus on player development and not building little AAU or 7v7 fiefdoms.

High school will continue to field teams it will just be with players who wouldn't have made it in the past. In areas like the Jackson metro where we are finally seeing the hiring of actual soccer coaches to coach in high school. , hopefully they will keep coaching high school despite not being able to field the best talent.

It is obvious that some of the posters above are pretty oblivious about soccer...

No, 8:53. The issue that likely created this rule was that coaches would "encourage" players to play off-season in clubs as a team. Effectively skirting limits placed on practice. Single dimensional parents who were not athletes or have kids that aren't very athletically diverse, but are good at only one sport do not understand that it harms the sport overall when you effectively require yearlong participation and no participation in other sports.

Nothing in the rules hurts local leagues. Leagues are made up of multiple teams and those players that want to play and play no other sports, can be spread among the different teams.

"Everybody just quit MHSAA and play league. See how easy that was. Your welcome!" Agree completely!
Problem is, even though HS is not nearly the quality of club, the kids still enjoy HS more than club and want to play.

Without these restrictions, club teams would become de facto high school teams outside the season. Participation in the club would effectively be mandatory to play on the team. We know this is what would happen because parents and coaches ALWAYS treat youth sports like an arms race.

The MHSAA doesn't want to sanction year round sports. If you don't like it, don't join the high school team. Play club all year, like you said. Nobody put a gun to little Connor's head and forced him to try out.

What's so bad about kids playing together all year?

It's just surreal to see people worrying that this rule will degrade "the quality of high school soccer."

I mean WHO F***ING CARES? The point of high school sports is to let kids participate in an activity that teaches physical fitness and teamwork. THAT'S IT. Mississippi has the worst secondary education system in America, and you're worried about whether SOCCER meets some arbitrary standard of quality?

Most of your schools don't even field debate teams, much less competitive ones. Most don't participate in academic decathlon, orchestra, or a half dozen other activities that come standard in other regions of the country. And if they do, be assured that they fund them at a fraction of the funding levels for BY GOD SPORTS, if at all.

If you prefer to play on a club, play on a club. It's your call. But to argue that we should change the rules so "elite" players will decide to grace high school teams with their presence gets priorities ass backwards. It actually reduces the number of discrete opportunities for different kids to play, and should therefore be actively discouraged.

9:47 is obviously clueless.

9:18

Your theory is ok. Practically speaking, in rec or club soccer, even in larger leagues, like SMCSO, numbers dwindle starting at about age 14. After that, which you will note is high school age, you are at one team. If those players can't play together, you are at 0 teams, assuming they choose high school, which for club players they likely will not. So the rule will probably kill older age rec teams and put those players on the high school team. In smaller towns high school might get the choice so you may see smaller schools now beating schools from areas that were traditionally better.

9:47 sounds like your kid didn't make the team, or maybe you didn't. I don't see anywhere above where anyone is really passionate about it; just discussing the likely outcomes of such a rule. Well rounded is the best recipe, however, kids tend to know their strengths and fall into groups that support those strengths,absent pushy parents. There aren't too many debate versus soccer arguments happening among the kids

the only winners in this are the club coaches. they laugh all the way to the bank.

Yeah, 10:49! How dare anyone make any extra money doing something they love and helping kids while they are at it. They should know they've probably been disenfranchised at some point and just wait on the gubment to subsidize their regular income. Double shame on those legal immigrants who use that income to go to college in our country and better themselves.

I'm with 9:47, all the way. Most of our state's high schools don't bother with fielding debate teams, don't require a foreign language (Hell, they barely teach our native one!), and yet "BY GOD SPORTS" (thank you, 9:47) must, by all means, get adequate attention and funding. "WHO F***ING CARES," indeed? And, 10:21, naturally these kids would rather go out and mindlessly futz around with some round ball than actually tax their brains crafting a Lincoln-Douglas debate strategy, doing research, or memorizing Latin, French, Spanish or German verb forms. That's why we need not ask THEM what they'd prefer! Yes, exercise is vital, and the fat schoolkids in MS need all they can get, but it need not be some over-funded competitive team program---good ol' gym class would do just fine. What needs a real workout is their brains. Jeez. Parents who get worked up about sports also need a good "checkup from the neck up" as Ann Landers used to say...

10:14, it's not theory. It's just fact

The problem is that you and the OP have difficulty differentiating between league and tournament teams.

I referenced the commentary about leagues. If it's about being on a tournament team, then those players can still spread out and find tems just like softball and baseball.

Unfortunately, too many parents simply miss the boat where athletics is concerned. Tournament play, whether baseball, soccer or softball is great. It pits the elite players against other elite players. It is not an avenue to scholarship. That's a story told by tournament directors.

If your child is good enough to play at the college level, has the grades and the desire, there are traditional routes to exposure. As with nearly everything, all or nothing isn't the answer.

Laughable.

Debate teams. Where one is taught the art of obfuscation and intellectual dishonesty vs team sports where one is taught sportsmanship, teamwork, adversity, honor, etc

I was on my high school tennis team AND the debate team, and took four years of HS French. At some point, I may be too rickety to wobble out onto the court and wield a racquet, but I will probably hold onto the mental acuity bred by those non-physical activities. These kids who just slide through the system doing the very minimum academic work and wallowing in sports are gonna be pretty boring citizens once their joints fail...point is, there must be a balance. And pouring insane, obscene amounts into any sports program at the expense of academics is...well, insane and obscene. Two-twenty-five, the very fact that you spelled "obfuscation" correctly indicates that you probably didn't snooze through class. And your holy reverence for the virtues of team sports indicates that you probably played one of them. That's wonderful. How 'bout a compromise: kids don't get to play a sport until they get their grades up to par. If they're flunkin', then it's pushups and running laps around the basketball court in third period...period.

where are the petitions for better schools?

maybe we should make all sports club sports and let the schools get back to being places to learn.

2:25, have you ever seen a high school debate tournament? Have you ever watched those kids grill each other over whether their evidence supports their claims?

I judged one earlier this year, and I can tell you, this isn't a presidential debate we're talking about. Trying to mislead the judges will flat get you embarassed.

Compare that to the widespread cheating and corruption that marks so many sports today. My friend, your comment just could not be more wrong. And this is coming from a former 3 year varsity athlete.

We've gotten off track. The question isn't whether we should have sports in school. That's already been decided. The question is whether high school players should be allowed to stay together year round. Again, why is this bad? If off season play is too much trouble for the high school athlete then he doesn't have to play. If the coaches put too much pressure on the kids then they can do something else. If it gives a team a competitive advantage, well, they're supposed to be trying to gain a competitive advantage. I just don't see the problem. Let 'em play...

Here's why you're wrong, Bill.

First, no one is denying kids the opportunity to play year round with friends. Instead, kids are given a choice either to (a) play on the high school team and play year round with SOME friends; or(b) play year round with ALL friends.

The reason for requiring that choice is that, without it, year round club teams will become the de facto school teams in the off season. Coaches will tell kids to play on a particular club team all year or find themselves without a spot on the school team. This is what happened with AAU basketball in the 1990's, which is why we have the rule in the first place.

Apparently, you don't think excluding kids from the school team for not committing year round is a problem. As you put it, "they can do something else." But the MHSAA disagrees. It has always had rules preventing overzealous coaches from making year round practice demands on students. This is just an extension of those longstanding rules.

Kids who don't like it are free to play club sports. That's the beauty of free markets.

Ophelia,
Most programs do not allow kids to play sports and flunk academics. It's not either/or. Sports is a part of the curriculum just like the arts. Comparing sports to debate is seriously not understanding either program. I was captain of both the debate team and the footnall team.


Bill,
The point is to not allow a coach to place undue pressure on kids to isolate to one sport all year. This is good for all sports. Every school will have multi-faceted players who will be able to contributors to multiple sports. Coaches have a tendancy to "fight" over those good athletes and require them to commit only to their program. It becomes less about the kids and more about the program.

Interesting claim, 7:20, considering debate tournaments take place primarily on Friday nights, and mostly in the Fall. Maybe you went to a school with a debate "club" rather than a real team? Which, by the way, is the problem. It's not "either/or," but rather a question of emphasis and priorities. The football part of the "curriculum" has temples built to it while activities that are far more germane to future careers struggle to exist at all.

I think kids in my day were better off having their " fun" not be so overly structured by adults.

We learned much choosing up sides and working out the rules on our own.

And, if we got tired and wanted to go play hide and seek or climb a tree instead, we could.

Kids are learning alot about power structures, rigid enforcement of rules and the use of rules strategically but very little about getting along with others, compromise,creative or independent thinking or what working together as a team really means. And, they definitely get robbed of much of the joy of just playing.

Nothing kills desire as fast as turning something fun into work.

Somehow all of the frenzied soccer folks have lost sight of the fact the the MHSAA is not some hidden unknown wizard behind the curtain that should be villainized, but rather it is an association of member schools and the MHSAA board is made up of AD's and administrators of our schools. In other words, they see how nutty you act on a daily basis.

8:38 - name of those people who have been involved in soccer at all. Even the guy over the soccer officials admitted when he came that he knew NOTHING about it.

If you don't know the sport, you can't effectively govern it.

I love all sports, but I hate to see soccer thrown in with all the others in these rules. I don't see them telling football players to quit attending combines in the summer.

2:20 Your ignorance is showing with regards to how soccer leagues and "tournament" teams work. I've played soccer for 37 years, served on the league board and coached for over a decade.

The fact that you used the terms "tournament" team in reference to soccer is a huge tip off. This would be a great place for you to recognize that you may know how baseball and football works, but it doesn't work the same way in soccer. I didn't say that it technically couldn't, but it doesn't at present, and given the history, I suspect that it won't.

Take Florence for example. They are a smaller town that fields competitive soccer teams. Club soccer teams typically roster up to 18. With the "5" rule, there is no way that Florence can field 5 different teams just to give all the kids an opportunity to play soccer. They will have to make a choice between club and school. Somebody will lose and the kids that love soccer will play together year-round, regardless, even if it is in some unstructured form. Each sport is different, rules should be adjusted to fit each sport.

I know of no AAU type crap going on in any soccer club. Kid's try out every year and if they are good enough they make the team. If not, they don't. They don't get the same coach every year. They don't necessarily play with the same kids every year.

If we aren't going to make any distinction between sports, why not make all teams play on the baseball field, or decide that every soccer goal counts 6, just like in football. Kind of ridiculous examples, but the point is that all sports are different. Blanket rules can sometimes be bad for one sport while perfectly appropriate for another.

AMEN to 9:43

"Somehow all of the frenzied soccer folks have lost sight of the fact the the MHSAA is not some hidden unknown wizard behind the curtain that should be villainized, but rather it is an association of member schools and the MHSAA board is made up of AD's and administrators of our schools. In other words, they see how nutty you act on a daily basis."

And how many on the administrative boards from those schools have any experience or have coached soccer? None. Even the newer staff member over the officials, including soccer, admitted he knew nothing at all about the sport when he came on board.

You have 22 kids on a high school team, and 10 of those as juniors play together on the same club team, 8 as seniors play on the same club team, and you see the problem. The local Florence,Pearl, Brandon, Tupelo, Oxford, etc leagues are screwed. And what school doesn't want their athletic teams to be competitive>

very few know soccer. Nor do they know badmitton, volleyball or bowling, also minor sports like soccer

Overreach by a group of government funded institutions? That's outrageous! I've never heard of such. Probably because my kids all attend private school. I've been paying JA to tend to that whole education thing for 15, 16 years and have yet to encounter any drama. It's like magic.

So Mr. JA Parent, why come on here and even comment? Go back to Sheffield Drive.

There is no drama at JA? Ill be enrolling my children today! Finally! Utopia!

haha, yeah, no drama until a doctors kid isn't the starting QB.

If you're at JA and your healthy, active kid won't go on Adderall, you're in trouble, too.

Kingfish what is wrong with outside club teams playing together as HS teams is that it relegates HS teams that do not have a club team affilliation to being totally unprepared to play against the HS/Club teams.

The Mississippi Soccer Association recognizes this and separates club teams from recreational teams. The problem is that the younger age groups club teams are not allowed, so everybody plays recreational league soccer at the younger ages. Even so the rules were stretched to stack talent on a few teams.

I coached both of my kids from recreational "Under 6 age group" up through 16 and 17 club leagues and nothing is so sad as to see the power house teams decimating the regular teams.

My wife was the registrar for a recreational league and she only did it for one year as she became disgusted with the ploys used by over zealous coaches and parents to "stack" talent on one or two teams.

It was so bad that some of the lesser teams [parents and kids) refused to play the stacked teams. They would rather forfeit than be beat 20 to 0 time and time again.

I agree that HS soccer should abide by the same rules as football, and baseball, the other sport with large rosters. Soccer is not that "special".

In my opinion, let the kids play on as level a playing field as possible during these formative years. These kids are amateurs, learning to play within rules which may be fair, or unfair in their eyes and the eyes of their parents and coaches. Such are lessons of life...in the real world.

In my opinion, part of the reason for the Wall Street crash was because the "special "soccer kids grew up and thought all was fair.

Unethical behavior is ok if you don't overtly break the law and best of all, you don't get caught with both hands and feet in the cookie jar.

They didn't challenge the super greedy baby boomer bosses and the "street" crashed.

Funny, the baby boomers, in their youth challenged the system they were dealt when the Vietnam war was protested publically, loudly and often.

No surprise that Frank wants redistribution to apply to sports. His "kids" -- or the "kids" he believes he represents -- will still wash out in the same sports at the same places where the participation pyramids already narrow but, in Frank's view, they'll somehow, inexplicably, feel better about it.

The Frank gives us this:

Unethical behavior is ok if you don't overtly break the law and best of all, you don't get caught with both hands and feet in the cookie jar.

Please Frank, explain to all of the Jackson metro area "Retired" Lieutenant Robert Graham of the Jackson Police Department.