tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447438783001404385.post2311257247436573287..comments2024-03-28T17:43:29.889-05:00Comments on Jackson Jambalaya: Taggart: Change the state flagKingfishhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06184990110961727404noreply@blogger.comBlogger152125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447438783001404385.post-13150025986139490212017-09-08T19:05:06.106-05:002017-09-08T19:05:06.106-05:00Just like the good ole boys to circle the wagons o...Just like the good ole boys to circle the wagons on a lost cause. Keep the damn flag, no IT is not the reason Miss. is losing good people, but it is part of the reason. 2.9 million and counting down each day. By the 2020 census I would bet this number will decrease some more but you good ole boys keep wallowing in your racism! I know what you will say, if you don't like it leave. Well that is exactly what my college educated ass will be doing soon as well as thousands of other high skilled individuals!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447438783001404385.post-80918911658497725982017-09-08T18:44:47.909-05:002017-09-08T18:44:47.909-05:00Andy makes a good point. Republicans who won the f...Andy makes a good point. Republicans who won the fight to end the rebellion and keep the union, ended slavery and passed the civil rights acts, were denied the vote for decades starting with the introduction of this flag are now the ones in the great state of Mississippi the ones keeping this flag. Lord have mercy. Strange the most patriotic people I know get all bothered over confederate myths, the battle flag and the current state flag. It will come down, demographics have shifted, Most Americans have no ties back to the War of rebellion, a small minority would hold on to the Confederate Lost Cause myths. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447438783001404385.post-36162213170814868022017-09-08T15:01:55.224-05:002017-09-08T15:01:55.224-05:008:57 Good grief folks on here are awesome at makin...8:57 Good grief folks on here are awesome at making assertions that aren't grounded in fact and then trying to argue a point other than the one mentioned. The answer to your question/assertion is no. I'm glad that there is a forum for people to debate. I think that it makes it very clear who can/cannot express logical, well thought out arguments vs who tries to avoid answering direct questions about the argument at hand and starting tangential arguments about unrelated topics. It's awesome! What's more awesome is that slowly, various cities and institutions are simply refusing to fly the flag, so before long, with or without a formal change in the state flag, it simply won't be visible in many places. To date, 100+ posts in, not a single flagger has offered a single positive reason that the confederate battle flag should be part of the state flag. Excepting Mr. Smith, of course...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447438783001404385.post-47776024429655243732017-09-08T09:42:08.410-05:002017-09-08T09:42:08.410-05:00To 9/8 at 5:00 Thanks for a very honest appraisal...To 9/8 at 5:00 Thanks for a very honest appraisal of this situation. To 7:55 Please understand that no one proposes to take away your flag, your swastika, your Cadillac hood ornament or any other object that symbolizes your beliefs or fantasies. We are talking about a state flag. This is a symbol of many taxpayers and a significant number of them have GOOD reason to be offended or at least uncomfortable with it's design. If you want to wave it go ahead. But some people would like to at least make the effort to unite the state rather than advertising it's hate and division. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447438783001404385.post-90803763030098644632017-09-08T08:57:23.391-05:002017-09-08T08:57:23.391-05:00So @8:28, you would rather the voices of the flag ...So @8:28, you would rather the voices of the flag supporters be muted or silenced?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447438783001404385.post-13658452119129814332017-09-08T08:28:37.217-05:002017-09-08T08:28:37.217-05:00Kingfish, this post, allowing all the flag support...Kingfish, this post, allowing all the flag supporters the comment section to defend the indefensible, has likely provided more insight into what is wrong with MS and why we are perceived, and obviously in some cases, ARE backward. It's a sad, sad indictment...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447438783001404385.post-29985645777579934522017-09-08T08:23:46.465-05:002017-09-08T08:23:46.465-05:00@7:55 - you equate a confederate battle flag and i...@7:55 - you equate a confederate battle flag and its use to the Bible. Wow! That speaks volumes about the kind of people who supported slavery in the first place...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447438783001404385.post-90248192955297344882017-09-07T19:55:07.657-05:002017-09-07T19:55:07.657-05:00It's high time we all understand that we canno...It's high time we all understand that we cannot be held accountable by so called hate groups hijacking our symbols. If you are stupid enough to believe a hijacked symbol must be abandoned, you're pretty damned stupid. The Bible, the American flag, photos of Christ, The Virgin Mary and the ornament on the hood of a Cadillac have all been hijacked by hate groups. Do we ban all those too? Get the hell over your whiny-assed, sno-flake, liberal sniveling selves already. And put all your white linens on the street in a cardboard box no later than tomorrow. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447438783001404385.post-92177532244628079082017-09-07T18:17:50.958-05:002017-09-07T18:17:50.958-05:006:02: Thanks for the chuckle. 6:02: Thanks for the chuckle. William H. Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03153764164471792806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447438783001404385.post-81898361819485183122017-09-07T18:17:13.305-05:002017-09-07T18:17:13.305-05:00At least smith answered the question! Way better t...At least smith answered the question! Way better than the Maryland flag rube!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447438783001404385.post-35822540014797387812017-09-07T18:02:55.276-05:002017-09-07T18:02:55.276-05:00The insufferable Smith is here. Time to head for ...The insufferable Smith is here. Time to head for the exits.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447438783001404385.post-12083748407412248752017-09-07T17:57:07.568-05:002017-09-07T17:57:07.568-05:005:02 summarized it well " That flag is more i...5:02 summarized it well " That flag is more important to us than growing our economy or improving our educational system."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447438783001404385.post-34618676091246959132017-09-07T17:32:54.134-05:002017-09-07T17:32:54.134-05:00I'd like to know where Philbilly and Tater sta...I'd like to know where Philbilly and Tater stand on this issue. (I know, we voted on this in '00 or '01) As state leaders (and one gubernatorial candidate) you'd think they'd state their opinion. So far, spineless. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447438783001404385.post-15124275157319727182017-09-07T17:02:11.432-05:002017-09-07T17:02:11.432-05:00Let me jump in here 3:58.
We have the battle flag...Let me jump in here 3:58.<br /><br />We have the battle flag in a corner of the state flag, because over time no flag was so identified with the Confederacy as the battle flag. It was included in the state flag to show that MS still identified herself with the Confederacy and its principles and beliefs. It also honored the war dead. And it was a sign of defiance toward the victorious Union. As the days of Jim Crow were challenged by a growing Civil Rights movement, it became even more identified with resistance and defiance toward the Federal government. So, yes, the battle flag stands for MS history - a war to preserve the enslavement of Negroes (and, yes, I believe there were Constitutional issues at stake which would better have been resolved by the courts), for defiance toward the Union, and for resistance to integration. <br /><br />Now for the positive reason to keep the battle flag on the MS state flag. It serves the purpose of saying to the rest of the Union, including the other 10 Confederate states, "We remain defiant. We are not going to go along with the rest of the South in removing this Civil War symbol. We are a Southern state that does not want to be integrated into the Union except for the federal dollars we must receive in order to survive." It says to the 38% of the state that is Black,"This is a white state, where whites wield the power, and we are not going to make any concessions to you. We know it offends you. We know it reminds you of slavery, the War, segregation, and suppression of your civil rights, but that is just what we want it to say to you and everyone else. We know you feel no pride or loyalty toward that flag and that for you it can never be a unifying symbol of the whole of our state. But, frankly, we don't care. We are the majority. We voted on it, and the majority rules." It says to whites who are embarrassed by the flag and especially to our young people, "This is who we are, snowflakes. If you don't like it, you can move to one of the other 49 states. It's our history, and we will keep it at all costs." It says to businesses that would relocate to MS and to employees who might be asked to relocate, "This is who we are. If you don't like it, put your business somewhere else or don't come to live in this state. We don't give a rip. That flag is more important to us than growing our economy or improving our educational system." William H. Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03153764164471792806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447438783001404385.post-17400977716849899602017-09-07T17:00:16.560-05:002017-09-07T17:00:16.560-05:00Let me jump in here 3:58.
We have the battle flag...Let me jump in here 3:58.<br /><br />We have the battle flag in a corner of the state flag, because over time no flag was so identified with the Confederacy as the battle flag. It was included in the state flag to show that MS still identified herself with the Confederacy and its principles and beliefs. It also honored the war dead. And it was a sign of defiance toward the victorious Union. As the days of Jim Crow were challenged by a growing Civil Rights movement, it became even more identified with resistance and defiance toward the Federal government. So, yes, the battle flag stands for MS history - a war to preserve the enslavement of Negroes (and, yes, I believe there were Constitutional issues at stake which would better have been resolved by the courts), for defiance toward the Union, and for resistance to integration. <br /><br />Now for the positive reason to keep the battle flag on the MS state flag. It serves the purpose of saying to the rest of the Union, including the other 10 Confederate states, "We remain defiant. We are not going to go along with the rest of the South in removing this Civil War symbol. We are a Southern state that does not want to be integrated into the Union except for the federal dollars we must receive in order to survive." It says to the 38% of the state that is Black,"This is a white state, where whites wield the power, and we are not going to make any concessions to you. We know it offends you. We know it reminds you of slavery, the War, segregation, and suppression of your civil rights, but that is just what we want it to say to you and everyone else. We know you feel no pride or loyalty toward that flag and that for you it can never be a unifying symbol of the whole of our state. But, frankly, we don't care. We are the majority. We voted on it, and the majority rules." It says to whites who are embarrassed by the flag and especially to our young people, "This is who we are, snowflakes. If you don't like it, you can move to one of the other 49 states. It's our history, and we will keep it at all costs." It says to businesses that would relocate to MS and to employees who might be asked to relocate, "This is who we are. If you don't like it, put your business somewhere else or don't come to live in this state. We don't give a rip. That flag is more important to us than growing our economy or improving our educational system." William H. Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03153764164471792806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447438783001404385.post-22490637717882229422017-09-07T15:58:07.491-05:002017-09-07T15:58:07.491-05:00I didn't propose an argument about the Marylan...I didn't propose an argument about the Maryland flag, but you continue to return to it rather than answer a simple question about all the positives to A) The positive reason we have the confederate battle flag on our state flag and B) the positive reason we should keep a confederate battle flag on our state flag.<br /><br />Now you want to extend the debate to whether a secondary argument, that you started about something other than our state's flag, is really a straw man. <br />Anything but answer the question. Are you just a party hack who toes the talking point lines?<br /><br />1) Inability to think logically? check<br />2) Inability to debate facts? check<br />3) Inability to admit when wrong? check<br />4) Consistently attempt to deflect to alternative arguments instead of answering simple questions about the original? check<br /><br />Focus man, focus!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447438783001404385.post-78535137599461864762017-09-07T13:56:28.184-05:002017-09-07T13:56:28.184-05:0010:29, those are not straw man arguments to which ...10:29, those are not straw man arguments to which you refer. Go back and kick your debate teacher in the taint. Conceptual metaphors are quite often used in discussion.<br /><br />Straw man informal fallacy is when someone debates an argument you didn't propose, not merely utilizing conceptual metaphors. Sorry you typed all that nonsense for nothingAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447438783001404385.post-1110460271236338702017-09-07T13:56:13.771-05:002017-09-07T13:56:13.771-05:00"Whether or not a group adopted the symbol fo..."Whether or not a group adopted the symbol for their cause has nothing to do with the design’s original intent"<br /><br />the hypocrisy of those in this thread should be of concern as to why you want or don't want to remove a symbol.<br /><br />The confederate battle emblem was/is indeed used by hate groups and they have won.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447438783001404385.post-26618273229199500682017-09-07T11:47:09.250-05:002017-09-07T11:47:09.250-05:00Life is full of things that offend us. Where does...Life is full of things that offend us. Where does it end? Once it's changed and the statues come down, will you leave us alone? Personally I think we should put a picture of those giant rubber bull balls from the truck bumpers on the new flag. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447438783001404385.post-75135853783079786062017-09-07T11:21:51.541-05:002017-09-07T11:21:51.541-05:00Fully support removing the flag and the GOP should...Fully support removing the flag and the GOP should lead this effort. Better to have no flag than this one. It is a attractive flag, much nicer than most, still it has to go. The most patriotic people I know support the Confederate symbols, most accept the noble lost cause myths, almost impossible to see the reality. A vote in the presidential election with high turnout would bring it down. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447438783001404385.post-38719162459220636942017-09-07T10:47:31.499-05:002017-09-07T10:47:31.499-05:008:09, Maryland's flag isn't in the news be...8:09, Maryland's flag isn't in the news because it's not being used as a symbol of hate by anyone. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447438783001404385.post-48777630043277134932017-09-07T10:33:21.924-05:002017-09-07T10:33:21.924-05:00To 9:27 and 5:33. Please understand. Many symbol...To 9:27 and 5:33. Please understand. Many symbols and banners were used during the existence of the confederacy, some remain in prominent places, some have been removed. But, you have never seen the flag of Maryland or of Texas or any other state used as the present day banner to represent neo-nazis, self-professed bigots and klansmen or waved whenever terrorism against a large segment of the state is committed. Black people did not make this up. They are not being ultra sensitive when they say the most prominent part of THEIR states' flag STILL represents the most heinous proposition espoused by man. Just say you don't give a damn and stop trying to rationalize this bullshit. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447438783001404385.post-20898967711013274292017-09-07T10:31:59.976-05:002017-09-07T10:31:59.976-05:0010:12 - hello straw man, if you live in MS maybe y...10:12 - hello straw man, if you live in MS maybe you should change your name as well. logical...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447438783001404385.post-46090155039166031602017-09-07T10:29:57.459-05:002017-09-07T10:29:57.459-05:008:09 It's now clear everyone that you can'...8:09 It's now clear everyone that you can't provide ANY good or positive reason that the confederate battle flag is, and should remain, on the MS flag. It's a simple question really, yet you write War and Peace about Maryland's flag. I hand you this definition for your edification:<br /><br />"A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man"."<br /><br />I will heretofore refer to you as the straw man, but I'll play. Here is my easy and direct answer to your unrelated question about Maryland. It's a shocker really and I'll bet you will be surprised.<br /><br />I don't live in Maryland. I live in Mississippi. Where there is a confederate battle flag embedded in the state flag that was put there post-civil war to serve as a statement of intimidation and continued belligerence for having been on the WRONG side of history.<br /><br />I don't care if Maryland looks backwards (It isn't perceived that way because their flag is just ugly and wasn't actually used as a confederate battle flag ever). I don't care if Maryland goes broke or even suffers absolutely no repercussions because of their flag. I don't care if the entire nation is unthinking, uneducated, ignorant about other similar objects elsewhere and employs double-standards.<br /><br />What I do care about is that my state make an effort to distance itself from a past, and you tend to unfortunately prove, a present, that embraces relics of past racial injustice, murder, stupidity, etc. It's OK to admit that we got it WRONG and change to make it better. It's OK to do so even if all 49 other states adopt the confederate battle flag as their state flag tomorrow.<br /><br />It's OK to stand up for right, even if nobody else will. So, straw man, if all of my friends jumped off of a bridge I would not do so as well. It's time for MS to do something proactive to offset the false narrative that we are a bunch of racists and backwards people.<br /><br />Have you considered moving to Maryland since you seem to be enamored with that flag? It isn't currently under scrutiny and it doesn't fly over me so I don't care about it. I can't right every wrong in the world, but I can attempt to impact my home.<br /><br />-signed late 40's, white, straight, conservative, male, born and raised in the 'sipAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2447438783001404385.post-54417039299617852302017-09-07T10:12:57.648-05:002017-09-07T10:12:57.648-05:008:56 Since the Confederacy lost the war and Missis...8:56 Since the Confederacy lost the war and Mississippi was one of the Confederate States, what should we change the name of this state to?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com